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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OK,

Quote:

Originally posted by jumpmaster

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by jumpmaster

I don't have my FED rule book with me, but I believe the HBT is an ejection in FED baseball.

When you get your rules book, please provide a reference.

Thanks.

That would involve opening and reading.

Rich - don't go there. You have no idea how much time I spend in the rule book. But since you brought it up, as it is now August, I haven't looked at a FED rulebook since May. However, I have spent about 30 minutes a day in my OBR rule book this summer. During the FED season, I do the same in my FED rulebook. I will pull out my FED book tonight and post my answer. If I am wrong - I will eat crow.

As for this whole balk/no balk conversation - I pulled this info off the J/R website - http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/versions.html

It is a balk if a pitcher does not have the ball but assists in a try to deceive a runner by

being on or astride the rubber, [8.05 Approved Ruling-a]
feigning a pitching position or pitch [8.05i], or
putting the rosin bag in his glove to make it appear he has the ball.

This is known as the hidden ball trick. It is not necessarily a balk if a pitcher in this situation is on the dirt of the mound. [NFHS 6-2-5] [NCAA 9-3f]

From
The Rules of Professional Baseball
By Jaksa and Roder

The NFHS and NCAA rule references indicate that it may be a balk if a pitcher is on the dirt of the mound during the hidden ball trick in a high school or NCAA game. Here are the NFHS and NCAA rule differences that you would find in the appendix:

NFHS 6-2-5 requires a balk if the pitcher is within 5 feet of the pitching rubber without the ball.
NCAA 9-3f requires a balk if the pitcher steps onto the dirt of the pitching mound without the ball.

The J/R quote has been brought up before and Rick Roder has, in an old email, I believe, agreed that it is predicated on the ball being live.

The same applies to the FED and NCAA situations. They are predicated on a live ball. There is no balk when the ball is dead.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Yep, Garth . . .

As we all know these examples are related to live ball situations.

This thread started with a simple issue:

After a dead ball is it possible to have a hidden ball trick?

The answer is elementary:

No, as it is impossible to make a ball live without the proper procedure. It is impossible to have a balk with a dead ball and the ball cannot be placed into live action without proper steps.

This simply gives us one of the TWO examples of "do overs" in baseball.

I don't think people "don't get it," I just think they want to swim upstream against authoritive opinion.

And Peter, we know you hit my response square on the head. A Home run!

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Aug 2nd, 2004 at 05:50 PM]

Re: Re: Re: Re: OK,

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by jumpmaster

I don't have my FED rule book with me, but I believe the HBT is an ejection in FED baseball.

When you get your rules book, please provide a reference.

Thanks.

My mistake. I was thinking of the fake tag provision - FED 3-3-1a. I can't find anything about the HBT.

[QUOTE] originally posted by GarthB
The J/R quote has been brought up before and Rick Roder has, in an old email, I believe, agreed that it is predicated on the ball being live.

I wasn't aware of the Roder comments...just trying to add to the argument, based on additional comments I have seen.

In my opinion - no balk w/out putting the ball in play. Can't put the ball in play unless the provisions in rule 5-1-4 are satisfied.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OK,

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Why is this so hard to understand?

Theory: Because people can't believe that the defense can do something "wrong" without a penalty.

Re: Yep, Garth . . .

<i> Originally posted by Tim C </i>

<b> I don't think people "don't get it," I just think they want to swim upstream against authoritive opinion.

And Peter, we know you hit my response square on the head. A Home run!

Tee </b>

Common TEE we have all called a dead ball balk. (BIG GRIN!) The game is going on 3 hours, Temps in the 90's Game winning run on third and in our heads we hear that familiar ballpark voice " BEER HERE! BEER HERE!. I've got a Dead ball balk, game over, time to go and get some AC and a cold one.

Pete Booth