OK, my partner @ the plate called this one in a Babe Ruth District game:

R2, outs irrelevent, RH pitcher in the Set.
Pitcher moves "differently" from his customary delivery, in that (on this occasion only) his knee comes sharply over the rubber toward 2d base; R2 dives back to bag, and F1 delivers to the plate w/o hitch or hesitation.

I've got nothing, my partner balks him for "changing his motion to intentionally decieve" R2. There is discussion w/ the coach, I try to pull my partner aside for consultation, but he isn't having any. The call stands, the coaches more or less sold by the "changed / intent to decieve" terminology. However, as I am better known to these coaches, I get some approaches later in the game, which I beg off by pleading that A) I was (must have been, didn't see the balk) doing my "sneak-a-peek" at the runner @ that moment, and B) plate ump in "better position to see" effect of this "move" on the runner.

1.) I can't find this "balk" anywhere in the book(s); am I missing something? I've always been told it is damn near impossible to balk to 2nd; and as long as the basic mechanics are legal [continuous motion after clear stop, no quick pitch, etc.], I'm having a hard time grasping how one can balk on a delivery to the plate, simply because a runner got it into his head that a pick-off attempt was coming instead [even if F1 somewhow intended to convey that impression].

2.) Presuming I am right & there was no balk, anything I could have done to "get this right"? FWIW, I am senior to this guy, but not enough so that he HAS to respect what I tell him. I was not willing to chew him out post-game without the rule book in my hand.

Thanks

A balk to second base, you say...hmm???

I think we covered this one a couple weeks ago.

A pitcher can deliver differently every time. The only question is -- Is it a legal delivery? I don't see how it wouldn't be.

--Rich

Peter
While I'm not a newbie, that is exactly where my rule book is, which is why I didn't have it to cite chapter & verse post-game.
So, anything I could have done or suggestions for what, if anything to say to partner (on the scene of the crime) in these situations?
Or a good way to deal with the "was that really a balk" questions w/o ratting out my partner or lying?

[Edited by cbfoulds on Jul 20th, 2004 at 02:50 PM]

It depends on the politics of your association. In my own association, I am very senior and I don't care what the junior umpires think of me. I have been known to step in and correct a little dog's mishaps when he is too bull headed to come to me.

Example:

A couple of years ago, I was doing the bases in a FED game between two intense rivals. Bottom of 7th, tie score, bases loaded, with 2 outs. The pitcher delivered ball 4 and R3 came home from third, touched the plate, and everyone celebrated the victory around home plate. After about 10-15 seconds, my partner call the BR out for not going to first. He was still celebrating the victory at home. The home team coach came running out of the dugout breathing fire towards my partner. I yelled at the coach to come to me. I said quietly. "Coach, I'll take care of this if you just get that dumb-a$$ batter down to first and go back to your dugout."

I called my partner out to the C position and I asked him "What the hell are you doing?"

He said that he called the BR out for abandoning the bases. I said "You are not f$$$ing up this game with a call like that. A BR cannot be called out for abandoning the bases until after he gets in the dugout."

Then I said "And exactly where is the batter now?" The batter waved at us from over at first base and we quickly got the hell out of there before the visiting coach could lose his cool.

I had the same bozo for a partner two months later in a Legion game. He insisted that I do the plate because it was my turn. I said "No, you are doing the plate because you screwed up the last game and so you get to do it until you get it right." He grumbled loudly and put on his plate gear.

It about the fifth inning we had the following situation:

R3, R1, 1 out. R1 is moving on the pitch and a fly is hit to center for the fly out. R3 scores after the tag and R1 is doubled up going back to first. R3 clearly scored well before the ball reached first base.

As we are starting the next inning, I noticed that the score board did not reflect the run scored from the previous half inning. Before my partner can call "Play", I jogged in and asked him about the run that just scored. He said. "The run did not score becasue it was a force play at first." I said. "You just screwed up again so you owe me another plate. You can instruct the scorekeeper to put up another run or I'll show you up and do it for you."

Another run was put on the board and he went home after the game and called the assignor and demanded that I never work with him again. When the assingor did not honor his request, he quit. Good riddance.

On the other hand, if I am working with a bigger dog than me, he can screw up all he wants and if he doesn't come to me, it isn't going to be fixed.

The politics of my association hold the senior man accountable for all screw ups. When I am going to be held accountable, I take the necessary actions to get things right. If it violates umpire traditions, tough s$$$.

Recently, I wrote here about a situation where a junior umpire screwed up a catcher's interference call. I wandered into the mound as if to say. "Come ask me for Help!" He took the hint and asked me for help. If he had not, I would have intervened. It all has to do with the expectations of your assignor and the pre game conference. Get these things settled in pregame so you don't have any surprises.

Peter

Sounds like a really enjoyable place to umpire. And you sound like a really great partner to work with.

--Rich

Rich;

I would love to work a game with you. You sound too competent to have any major screw ups so you would love working with me.

Peter

From that perspective, sure, we would have no problems. But I just couldn't imagine moving into a new area and having a "big dog" walk on me on a field. And I've seen a lot of "big dogs" do this to "little dogs" when it was the "little dog" that knew his stuff and the big dog was just there for a long time.

Of course, the examples you gave were good ones in that anyone with basic knowledge knows that it isn't a force play just because you can tag the base rather than the runner.

Let me backtrack a bit. I'm not sure I would enjoy working in your group -- as someone who has lived in seven different states and always found a place in the better games after a short while, I don't think I'd have any problems fitting in anywhere. But it sounds like you'd rather crucify someone on a field rather than ever giving the impression that you were part of a crew that contained an umpire that screwed up.....and that's what I don't like. Or maybe that you talk about it so easily....I'm really not sure.

--Rich

Peter,

Shouldn't blame the newbies for screwing up, schidt happens. Maybe you should try beefing up your Umpire Training program. G.

Rich;

The competition among umpires is fierce. I doubt that I would have become a serious umpire if I had known in advance of the Machiavellian politics necessary to get to the top. I still have trouble believing that I spent the time to do what I did, just to umpire good baseball. In any other part of the country, I could have accomplished what I did with half the effort. DC has an extremely competitive mindset.

For Gee; The umpire that I metioned had four or five years experience. He had no excuse for not knowing the rules.

Peter

Sounds like the whole association could use some interpersonal skill training.

We still consider 4-5 years experience a novice (umpire in training) They might get a few varsity games, but probably not.

But as you state, there is no reason to not know the rules even with one years experience.

Thanks
David

Slow learners.

I know of umpires with less time in than that who are working D-1 and minor league ball. An umpire who still works like a novice after 5 years should come up with another hobby.

Or do you hold them back? Do the "good ol' boys" have a strangle hold on the good assignments?

Right ON!
 

In my association if an umpire isn't getting to varsity level in three years we send him back through the complete training cycle again or suggest he move on to other "hobbies."

Tee

And then there are the 15 - 20 yr officials that still DON'T know the rules or only check on them every 3-4 years.

Listen, knowing the rules and knowing when and how to apply them is USUALLY, a long time process. Something I don't believe many 4-5 year officials fully comprehend. A good deal of the time just calling balls and strikes, safes and outs, will get you through most games. Having a good day, let alone having a good game , are sometimes conflicts all to itself. Really having an understanding of why your out there takes time. And for heavens sake, we ALL know that just because a certain official is officiating a certain level, does NOT make him a good official.

Peter:

You really do come across as a know-it all arrogant a##, but if that is truly you , well then that is you. However this may be intimidating to some of the younger officials you work with and before they even start , they are probably already nervous about making an error. Helping them to improve to your level is a feather in you cap, driving them away is bad business for the association because you can't do ALL the games yourself. Or can you?

If every official got dumpped each time they made an error, we wouldn't even have MLB officials around. And they make tapes of all their errors.It is not always the student that can't learn, but most of the time it is the instructor that can't teach.

Not quite!
 

Not quite. No good ole boy network. But we have had an abundance of good umpires and since we have such a "baseball haven" its not like they aren't getting to work.

We have an extensive jv and junior high program with over 10 schools participating in just the junior high.

We also have the priviledge of having the state champions for the last two years in not just one division but in two divisions. So we have very good baseball for a little state.

We really are lucky.

But I do see a big change coming since we were really short on umpires this year. Next year we will be even shorter because I know of several veterans who are calling it quits.

On another topic I would NOT like to see a D1 official work with less than 5 years experience. Talk about feeding to the wolves. I've been there, done that and its not a cakewalk.

Speak of it I think I saw several this year at our local college - don't know where they're getting the D1 umpires now but not looking too good.

Thanks
David

<b>"On another topic I would NOT like to see a D1 official work with less than 5 years experience. Talk about feeding to the wolves. I've been there, done that and its not a cakewalk."</b>

Obviously not everyone can learn and mature at the same rate. I know some umpires with 20 years experience who can't handle D-1.

However, I do know a couple who went to proschool after their first year of umpiring and with the next four years were working D-1 and working it very well. They worked hard at improving and went to three man and other NCAA oriented camps every winter.

I know of another umpire, a close friend, who, when he decided he wanted to become an umpire, attended Evans school before ever working a game. That was just two years ago and now he is an excellent Varsity umpire. He'll be attending Tom Hiler's three man camp this winter and I'll wager by his 5th year in umpiring he'll be working D-1 games.

After the third year, it isn't time in service that makes the umpire, it is the effort, the ability to learn and improve and the level of maturity.

Making every umpire wait 5 years to get a chance at varsity is a waste of talent and opportunity.

I understand your point but ...
 

I understand what you are saying and I agree but I also disagree.

He's still an umpire with 3-5 years of experience I don't care how many camps he's gone to. And that will get you in trouble in D1 ball.

Camps are good but they are also overrated. You have it right 100% on the hard work part though.

I did the camp thing when I was young, and I worked hard and I made it big time but I was also working around 300 games a year in a metroplex Dallas/Ft. Worth.

And we had college leagues that played all summer so you could get really good experience year round. That is not available in many areas.

There is such a shortage of officials now that camps are used for officiating groups to grap "potential" umpires and they are training them as they go.

But, even attending camps and going to school doesn't give you the game experience and the know how to deal with coaches at that level. But then around here D1 is the SEC and then Conference USA. That's big time baseball. And its played year round.

I know that different in other parts of the USA.

I don't mean to beleaguer (sp) the point, but I still wouldn't want to work a conference D1 game with a guy with only 3 years under his belt.

Maybe non-conference but even then I would feel like "big brother".

Thanks
David

<b>"I understand what you are saying and I agree but I also disagree.

He's still an umpire with 3-5 years of experience I don't care how many camps he's gone to. And that will get you in trouble in D1 ball.

Camps are good but they are also overrated. You have it right 100% on the hard work part though.

I did the camp thing when I was young, and I worked hard and I made it big time but I was also working around 300 games a year in a metroplex Dallas/Ft. Worth.

And we had college leagues that played all summer so you could get really good experience year round. That is not available in many areas.

There is such a shortage of officials now that camps are used for officiating groups to grap "potential" umpires and they are training them as they go.

But, even attending camps and going to school doesn't give you the game experience and the know how to deal with coaches at that level. But then around here D1 is the SEC and then Conference USA. That's big time baseball. And its played year round.

I know that different in other parts of the USA.

I don't mean to beleaguer (sp) the point, but I still wouldn't want to work a conference D1 game with a guy with only 3 years under his belt.

Maybe non-conference but even then I would feel like "big brother".

Thanks
David</b>

Well obviously I've made some progress. At first you said you wouldn't want to see an umpire with 5 years experience working D-1, now you say 3 years.

If you read my posts completely, you will note that I do not conclude that time is service is the primary factor. And it is not. I know umpires with five years service that have worked 150 games in total. I know others that have five years service that have 750 games in total.

I know some umpires with 5 years service that are immature coach baiters and I know some with five years service that are as mature as 25 year veterans.

Like I said, it isn't they years. It is the skill, the maturity and the ability to learn....

And I wasn't talking about garden variety camps. I'm talking camps put on by D-1 conference assignors in which they look for new umpires.

If these guys with five years experience can make D-1 assignors happy, why should you be worried?

You can't lump all umpires together. I haven't done that. These guys are special. They have the skill to succeed and the willingness, even eagerness, to study and work hard to progress.

On the other hand, your initial comment: "We still consider 4-5 years experience a novice (umpire in training) They might get a few varsity games, but probably not." does lump them all together. I think you and your association are making a big mistake by doing so.


[Edited by GarthB on Jul 21st, 2004 at 06:16 PM]

How Long,
 

Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.

I had NEVER worked a JV game until this season. My first game ever was the plate of two of Oregon's largest varsity high school teams.

Lumping people of any type is dangerous.

I have seen at least four guys graduate from umpire school that could have went directly to major D-1 ball . . . and only one of them had worked ANY type baseball . . . 4 out of 400 is 1% . . . they still could do it.

Tee

<i>Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.</I>

Then what has happened to him in the mean time? Players and coaches rated him one of the worst umps in MLB last year, along with Bruce Froeming, who may be the senior member of the group now.

Some umps (certainly not all) reach a certain level, get fat and happy (Froeming qualifies on one of those, certainly not the other), and let the skills deteriorate. Umpiring is a JOB, and it takes constant training and diligence. The day you think you have it down is the day you are done.

Players and coaches? Who CARES?

How do other UMPIRES rate them?

--Rich

Re: How Long,
 

You might be right, they said he <b>could have. </b>

But, he didn't. He had to put in the time in minor league and then work his way up to major league.

There are a lot of D1 guys out there who probably shouldn't be but many of them are having to work their way through.

I remember having to do that and it was so frustrating.

And then you have to deal with the coaches so much in D1, they have way too much influence over who works their games.

Of course, I haven't worked college since the early 90's so things may be different, but I would bet they haven't changed a bit.

Coaches at that level want to have some pull with the umpires.

Speaking of umpires, I like Brinkman. He doesnt' put up with anything at all. Joe West, is well known, but doesn't get too much of the acolades that are so prevalent today.

Thanks
David

But, he makes a great vest!

As the proud owner of an orginal West Vest produced by Douglas, and both a new WestVest Gold and WestVest Platinum, I would (obviously) agree.