strike zone and philosophy

[jumpmaster]

Senior BR 16-18 yr old state tournament. Elimination game.

Top of 1, R1. Pitcher goes 0-2 on two borderline strikes, then throws 4 straight balls. PU starts calling a BIG zone. 12-18 inches off the plate, 0 inches inside, nipples to mid shin. Pitchers are having a hard time hitting the traditional zone. Final score 4-2. All runs score on errors.

After the game I asked my partner about his zone. There were a couple of instance where the catcher was catching balls leaving his feet and PU was calling strikes.

My partner said "These kids suck. The pitchers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. You have to expand the zone in order to move the game along. See, we finished in 1:50 and now are tournament is on schedule."

My thinking is this. This is a state tournament with no time limit. These teams should be able to compete at this level. Expand the zone a little, not before the 2nd inning. Give 2-3 baseballs on the outside, 1 baseball on the inside. Don't change up and down. "Hit the mit, win a strike", but not a foot off the plate. Don't adjust your zone this big, no matter how long it is taking. F2 is going to camp out 2 feet off the plate and F1 is going to live out there.

Any thoughts?

[ozzy6900]

Rule #1
Start with a realistic zone to the level of ball. When you call a strike or a ball, you just made a contract with the pitcher & the batters that the call will be there the whole game.

Pitching now goes from bad to worse - go to Rule #2.

Rule #2
If you have to "open up", open East to West by no more than a ball's width. That ususlly helps and doesn't affect that "contract" too badly.

If Rule #2 doesn't help go to Rule #3.

Rule #3
You've done all that you can do. Settle back for a long game but don't open up any farther. If you do, you will be asking for trouble.

[Edited by ozzy6900 on Jul 12th, 2004 at 11:25 AM]

[jicecone]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
Senior BR 16-18 yr old state tournament. Elimination game.

Top of 1, R1. Pitcher goes 0-2 on two borderline strikes, then throws 4 straight balls. PU starts calling a BIG zone. 12-18 inches off the plate, 0 inches inside, nipples to mid shin. Pitchers are having a hard time hitting the traditional zone. Final score 4-2. All runs score on errors.

After the game I asked my partner about his zone. There were a couple of instance where the catcher was catching balls leaving his feet and PU was calling strikes.

My partner said "These kids suck. The pitchers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. You have to expand the zone in order to move the game along. See, we finished in 1:50 and now are tournament is on schedule."

My thinking is this. This is a state tournament with no time limit. These teams should be able to compete at this level. Expand the zone a little, not before the 2nd inning. Give 2-3 baseballs on the outside, 1 baseball on the inside. Don't change up and down. "Hit the mit, win a strike", but not a foot off the plate. Don't adjust your zone this big, no matter how long it is taking. F2 is going to camp out 2 feet off the plate and F1 is going to live out there.

Any thoughts?

Yea, I'm thinking how a brainless umpire with a rotten attitude got to do this game in the first place. This was'nt expanding the strike zone, it was making a "travesty" of the game. He should have been tossed.

[GarthB]

Senior Babe Ruth? State Tournament level?

Start with an appropriate strike zone and stay there. Period.

By opening it up further, even of your suggested 3 balls outside and 1 inside (for almost an additional foot), all you you have done is saved the pitchers from working harder and the coach from going to his bullpen.

At that level, make them play the game.

[DG]

Call it by the book at this level, but remember that any part of the ball passing through the zone is a strike and since the ball is nearly 3 inches wide it could "appear" to the fans to be 2 inches inside or outside and actually have nearly an inch in the zone. Also, in OBR the low end of the zone is at a line at the hollow below the knee, not the knee itself, a difference of maybe two inches, and given that the ball is nearly 3 inches in diameter, well.. low pitches can be strikes too. Give me a pitcher who consistently throws the ball on the corner(s) of the plate, at the hollow of the knee, and the batters better figure out very quickly to swing or go back to the bench.

[WindyCityBlue]

I forget who said it...
"Your strike zone depends on how many fans are sitting behind you and how many cameras are on you."

Oh yeah, it was me.

A lot of us know that if 1/1000 of a seam passes through the zone, it is a strike. How wide is the ball? We all see the slow-mo replays where our favorite batter is wrung up on one that is "just a ball outside". At some levels, the seams are a little thicker than usual. If a pitcher is really hitting his spots, the plate grows too. I'm all for calling strikes and keeping the game going, but from the original thread, it sounds like he took the bat out of the kids hands. Everyone can see the top and bottom of the zone, don't job a kid there. If you've got a kid having a tough time, give him a ball and a half inside and two balls out. You aren't sawing off the bat and last time I looked the plate was 17" and the bat can be up to 36". So...if the kid is in the box (6" from the dish) and he's swinging with his arms extended, he's got a whole lot of bat to go after that "outside strike".

I know the first comment seemed a little smart a**ed, but it's true, the bigger the game and the more people watching us, the truer we are to the rules. No one likes getting caught opening up the zone. If you do, nake sure it's both ways and consistent.

When I've done high school games, I've actually had coaches come up to me and complain about the strike zone being too tight. I ask them if they want it opened and they always say "Hell, yes!" Conversely, I call a very tight zone when I'm working above that level. I try not to let the score effect me. I figure that I'm coming back there some day and I want them to want me to be there. That's a good attitude for youth ball, too.

[David B]

Originally posted by GarthB
Senior Babe Ruth? State Tournament level?

Start with an appropriate strike zone and stay there. Period.

By opening it up further, even of your suggested 3 balls outside and 1 inside (for almost an additional foot), all you you have done is saved the pitchers from working harder and the coach from going to his bullpen.

At that level, make them play the game.

I agree with you there GArth.

Make them learn how to pitch.

If they can't then they must suffer the consequences.

I'm not bailing out a pitcher just because he can't pitch.

After a couple of innings he's out, and the coach can put in a "real pitcher" and put his "son" somewhere else. (g)

thanks
David

[Jim Porter]

If Senior Babe Ruth in your area is anything like it is in my area, then there isn't a kid on any of the teams who can pitch. All the players at that age group are in some other more competitive league - Legion, Amateur, Travel, and Connie Mack all take the kids who can play. What's left over plays Senior Babe Ruth.

I can relate to the poster's story. If you have too tight a strike zone those games can last 3 hours and have a score higher than a football game. Then you play in a tournament with multiple teams and try to keep on a schedule and it becomes an absolute nightmare.

So calling a generous strike zone isn't such a bad thing. However, if jumpmaster's story is true, the plate umpire went way overboard with his generosity. I don't advise that, of course.

[orioles35]

After just finshing up a Babe Ruth tournament where there was NO time limit, I concur. I had a 22-17 game, there were a few others of similar scores including a 28-20 game that lasted FOUR AND A HALF HOURS. $50/game isn't worth it in that case.

[PeteBooth]

My partner said "These kids suck. The pitchers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. You have to expand the zone in order to move the game along. See, we finished in 1:50 and now are tournament is on schedule."

My thinking is this. This is a state tournament with no time limit. These teams should be able to compete at this level.

Your partner probably had these type teams before and your thinking that "these teams should be able to compete at this level" could be false. Just because these kids are 16-18 doesn't automatically mean they can play.

The strike zone is that which is accepted by the League we umpire in. If there wasn't too many "moans and groans" from BOTH benches then perhaps that is the way they want the strike zone called. It's THEIR game and if that is the accepted ZONE, then call it that way.

Hopefully, amateur baseball will go back to wood bats. From my personal experience this year, the wood bat tournaments / games get over at least 45 minutes sooner compared to those that use metal.

Bottom Line: If that's the Zone that is accepted, then keep it there.

Pete Booth

[nickrego]

In our area, each high schools runs one Sr. Babe Ruth team. Only the best from the schools JV and Varsity are ‘invited’ to participate.

Can they pitch ? Man can they pitch… hit, field and run. Very fun games to work or watch.

I have never had a playoff or final for Sr. Babe Ruth where the pitchers couldn’t pitch. But last year I had a Varsity HS Playoff game where neither of the two starters could hit the broad side of a barn. Both pitchers were prospects for colleges and pro, and the coaches wanted them out there.

Did I open up my zone, NO WAY !

Both coaches were pissed as hell, because in order to attempt to win the game, they both had to replace their starters. Sorry that these kids were having an off day, but this was a very important game and I was not about to call a LL strike zone (and that's what it would have taken).

I don’t like to open my zone (more than is customary for that level). And I don’t change in the middle of a game, period. It takes the bat away from the batters, allows the coaches to leave a bad pitcher in, screws up your actual zone for the next game, and just plain makes you look bad.

Consistency of our strike zone is something I think we all work hard to achieve. Opening and closing your zone depending on the situation, I think, is counter productive to consistency. We all have several zones to match each level, that is bad enough. But to have a secondary set for each level based on how good the pitchers are ? Asking for trouble…

[GarthB]

Originally posted by nickrego
In our area, each high schools runs one Sr. Babe Ruth team. Only the best from the schools JV and Varsity are ‘invited’ to participate.

Can they pitch ? Man can they pitch… hit, field and run. Very fun games to work or watch.

I have never had a playoff or final for Sr. Babe Ruth where the pitchers couldn’t pitch. But last year I had a Varsity HS Playoff game where neither of the two starters could hit the broad side of a barn. Both pitchers were prospects for colleges and pro, and the coaches wanted them out there.

Did I open up my zone, NO WAY !

Both coaches were pissed as hell, because in order to attempt to win the game, they both had to replace their starters. Sorry that these kids were having an off day, but this was a very important game and I was not about to call a LL strike zone (and that's what it would have taken).

I don’t like to open my zone (more than is customary for that level). And I don’t change in the middle of a game, period. It takes the bat away from the batters, allows the coaches to leave a bad pitcher in, screws up your actual zone for the next game, and just plain makes you look bad.

Consistency of our strike zone is something I think we all work hard to achieve. Opening and closing your zone depending on the situation, I think, is counter productive to consistency. We all have several zones to match each level, that is bad enough. But to have a secondary set for each level based on how good the pitchers are ? Asking for trouble…

Agreed. A good strike zone is, in part, the result of consistency. It's similar to a habit. Both good and bad habits come from repetitive behavior.

[orioles35]

My zone is my zone. I'm comfortable and most importantly confident in it. The only thing I will do is make sure to call all borderline pitches in the first couple of innings. That usually gets the hitters thinking they need to swing the bat, this moves the game along rather well. Also I feel if I call it that way early in the game, it needs to be the same call LATE in the game as well. That's consistency, which every umpire should stride for.

[PeteBooth]

Both coaches were pissed as hell, because in order to attempt to win the game, they both had to replace their starters. Sorry that these kids were having an off day, but this was a very important game and I was not about to call a LL strike zone (and that's what it would have taken).

I don’t like to open my zone (more than is customary for that level). And I don’t change in the middle of a game, period. It takes the bat away from the batters, allows the coaches to leave a bad pitcher in, screws up your actual zone for the next game, and just plain makes you look bad.

Who are the CUSTOMERS?

IMO, what you said opening up the zone just plain makes you look bad and the coaches were pissed as hell, does not make sense. How can you look bad when your Customers want you to open up the zone.

I do not know how your association works, but in mine Coaches have a say in who umpires their games. Therefore, if the coaches who are your Customers want a certain zone who are you to argue. It's not OUR GAME it's theirs.
Also, you get to go home early - What's wrong with that.

IMO, I do not think that opening up your zone will make you inconsistent for the next game. If it does then IMO you have problems with your mechanics to begin with.

We have all done games in 2 hours or less. Why! Predominately the pitching and I don't mean all K's either. I mean F1 is around the plate, the hitters swing and the fielders field which is the way baseball is supposed to be played.

I realize baseball isn't a timed sport, but I am not going to be out there for 4 hours either. Also, with the advent of the metal bat, you can give F1 the same "break" that you give on the outside edge to the inside edge as well.

Once the game becomes rediculous, and is OVER, it's OVER meaning open up the zone and get out of dodge.

Pete Booth

[nickrego]

Pete,

In our association, coaches have no say so about umpires. An AD can request an umpire be blacked out from their school, but that is it. No requesting umpires.

The league is my customer (they pay our salaries), not the coach. Trying to please coaches is a no win situation.

Every playoff, final or sectional has an evaluator in the stands for our association. That is who I don’t want to look bad for.