Not in contact with rubber at release??

up-and-in · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 09:00am

Howdy,

Recently witnessed a RH pitcher who at the end of his stride motion to home does a funky little hop that has him land about 6-10 inches off the rubber ball still in hand - and then he finishes the pitch. He starts on the rubber - but by the time he finishes his stride - he has moved significantly closer to the plate.....

Is this legal???

THANKS in advance for insight!!!!

I have removed pictures.....

[Edited by up-and-in on Jul 6th, 2004 at 08:50 AM]

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by up-and-in
Howdy,

Recently witnessed a RH pitcher who at the end of his stride motion to home does a funky little hop that has him land about 6 inches off the rubber ball still in hand - and then he finishes the pitch. I can send a picture if needed.

Is this legal???

THANKS in advance for insight!!!!

He hops at the END of his stride motion? I can't imagine that.

Please post the picture.

YoungRighty · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:45am

I assume you're talking about Javy Guerra. If so, I would describe it as a little crow hop as he strides. He definitely re-plants his right (pivot) foot before he releases the ball.

There was a lot of speculation about if his mechanics would be considered legal by pro umpires. He has signed and made his debut the other night in the Gulf Coast League (Rookie). I haven't heard anything about him having to change things, so they must've allowed it.

DG · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 06:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by up-and-in
Howdy,

Recently witnessed a RH pitcher who at the end of his stride motion to home does a funky little hop that has him land about 6-10 inches off the rubber ball still in hand - and then he finishes the pitch. He starts on the rubber - but by the time he finishes his stride - he has moved significantly closer to the plate.....

Is this legal???

THANKS in advance for insight!!!!

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture.jpg

[Edited by up-and-in on Jul 1st, 2004 at 12:46 PM]

He does this from the set position or from windup? I can't visualize it.

up-and-in · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 08:07pm

To help you out - here is a picture of the pitcher just before the picture that I showed above - he starts with his foot on the rubber - and then during the stride he sorta hops out and now is away from the rubber. So - this picture first then the one above.

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture2.jpg

DG · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:09pm

This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Dave Hensley · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

GarthB · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by up-and-in
To help you out - here is a picture of the pitcher just before the picture that I showed above - he starts with his foot on the rubber - and then during the stride he sorta hops out and now is away from the rubber. So - this picture first then the one above.

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture2.jpg

I'm equally curious as to what the BU in the old "duh" stance is looking at.

GarthB · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 10:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

I don't think I've seen it occur prior to the non-pivot foot landing. This really looks strange.

DG · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

This guy's pivot foot is off the bag by a foot, his non-pivot has not landed, and his pitching hand is still behind his head. And we don't get to see where he is when he actually releases. This stretches the imagination of a legal pitch.

David B · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

Originally posted by up-and-in
To help you out - here is a picture of the pitcher just before the picture that I showed above - he starts with his foot on the rubber - and then during the stride he sorta hops out and now is away from the rubber. So - this picture first then the one above.

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture2.jpg

I'm equally curious as to what the BU in the old "duh" stance is looking at.

LOL. Kind of shoots down the old adage about watching the ball at all times.

Thanks
David

Dave Hensley · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

This guy's pivot foot is off the bag by a foot, his non-pivot has not landed, and his pitching hand is still behind his head. And we don't get to see where he is when he actually releases. This stretches the imagination of a legal pitch.

In the picture you linked to, the pitcher's pivot foot appears to be in the hole in front of the rubber and, if not actually in contact, it is certainly not "a foot" off the rubber. There is nothing unusual about the pitcher's motion in the photograph.

akalsey · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:32pm

I can't see how that could be a legal pitch.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley
In the picture you linked to, the pitcher's pivot foot appears to be in the hole in front of the rubber...

I think you may be looking at the wrong picture. There were two posted. The first is the really odd looking one...

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture.jpg

DG · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

This guy's pivot foot is off the bag by a foot, his non-pivot has not landed, and his pitching hand is still behind his head. And we don't get to see where he is when he actually releases. This stretches the imagination of a legal pitch.

In the picture you linked to, the pitcher's pivot foot appears to be in the hole in front of the rubber and, if not actually in contact, it is certainly not "a foot" off the rubber. There is nothing unusual about the pitcher's motion in the photograph.

Look at the other picture posted.

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture.jpg

[Edited by DG on Jul 2nd, 2004 at 12:38 AM]

David B · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Quote:

Originally posted by DG
This guy looks like he starts off ok, but as he moves forward he is a foot off the rubber and the ball is still in his hand and his hand is still behind his head. By the time he releases he could be another foot toward home. This looks like illegal pitch to me. Call a ball and he will stop.

Watch some slow motion or freeze frame video of just about any pitcher and you will see that they typically lose contact with the rubber with the pivot foot before the ball is released.

To call that a violation is over-officious in the extreme.

This guy's pivot foot is off the bag by a foot, his non-pivot has not landed, and his pitching hand is still behind his head. And we don't get to see where he is when he actually releases. This stretches the imagination of a legal pitch.

In the picture you linked to, the pitcher's pivot foot appears to be in the hole in front of the rubber and, if not actually in contact, it is certainly not "a foot" off the rubber. There is nothing unusual about the pitcher's motion in the photograph.

Look at the other picture posted.

http://users.adelphia.net/~mmyers2/picture.jpg

That's not that odd at all. I see a lot of pitchers who will kind of hop off of the rubber. It gives them a long stride as is shown in the picture.

But I've never considered it illegal.

Thanks
David