The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 08:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 461
Send a message via AIM to jumpmaster Send a message via MSN to jumpmaster Send a message via Yahoo to jumpmaster
Question

We had a situation in our association at a 16-18 year old tournament this last weekend.

sitch - final day of the tournament and two games scheduled simultaneously. One game is the championship game, the other is a loser's bracket game. Both teams from the championship game and the winner of the loser's bracket game advance to the next level. 3 umpires, 1 a rookie (20 yoa), 2 veterans (one of which is the assignor, the other a respected big dog). The assignor determines that the rookie should call the loser's bracket game BY HIMSELF and the 2 vets should call championship game.

I have 2 problems with this situation 1)a 20 yoa calling a 16-18 tourney, 2) the assignor putting a rookie on a field by himself in a losers bracket final.
A. What, if any, action should be taken against the assignor for poor judgement?
B. What, if any, action should be taken against the other vet for not stepping up and attempting to stop this?
__________________
Alan Roper

Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 10:33am
Ref Ump Welsch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
First of all, I can't imagine the assignor didn't have a 4th umpire available, especially since this was a tournament. There's just too much at stake in a tournament to have this kind of situation happen. I echo Peter's sentiments that maybe umpire availability was suffering, so that may have been a reason. A rush to judgement is not neccessary here.

Secondly, just because an umpire is just a couple of years older than the players doesn't disqualify him from working that game. If that were the case, then noone should be allowed to work slow-pitch softball games because the players and umpires are all the same age range. If his skills were extraordinary, and the assignor picked him for that, then that point is moot.

Third, I would discuss this with the board of your association, in the presence of the assignor. This gives the board an opportunity to hear your concerns, at the same time allow the assignor to give rebuttal if neccessary. Don't go filing a complaint or asking for sanctions right away. If the board feels there's enough for sanctions, leave it to them. Just present your concerns and the facts of the situation at the most.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 11:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 7
age

I currently work in a small association in a college town. Thus a good majority of our umpires are students (18-22). Some are pretty raw. Some are outstanding. We have a few that have made it to the pros. I was doing legion tournaments when I was 19 and 20. There was definately some animosity towards me. But I earned those games. I know I was better than some of those who were mad that I was doing those games, simply because I hustled, I used proper mechanics, etc, etc.

Now I don't know the situation with this 20yo, so maybe he's pretty raw. And if that's the case you're right he shouldn't be on a game like that by himself. It's not good for anybody. I've seen several umpires in our association who were put into varsity games too fast because we are a small group really struggle and eventually give up. But if it's just a matter of age I don't think it should impact what games umpires are assigned too. (assuming all the umpires are 18+)

So just my opinion =)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 11:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 461
Send a message via AIM to jumpmaster Send a message via MSN to jumpmaster Send a message via Yahoo to jumpmaster
some additional information

There was another umpire assigned to this game. He was on duty as a police officer and had been approached about working another tournament that weekend by another assignor.

Our assocation has multiple assignors that assign the various leagues. When making out the tournament schedules, the assignors meet as a group and identify teams of 8-10 umpires to work the tournaments.

This assignor has had a reputation of not calling until the last minute to fill slots. In addition, by his own admission, on 2 other recent occasions, this assignor failed to ATTEMPT to fill a vacancy.

We did have umpires available. I personally know of 2 that routinely call this level of ball and would have re-arranged schedules for this type of situation.

My beef about the age is not specifically his age but that this kid is a rookie and looks 14. I should have made that clear.
__________________
Alan Roper

Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 12:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 63
Age

The age factor should not be considered in this assignment. However, I will admit that I am very biased in this opinion: I work High School games where the kids are my age.

While some 17-18 year olds look like they are much older, I am not one of them. When I had the plate meeting of my first game of the day yesterday, the visiting coach came out and said, "Wow. I feel like my son is umping for me." I smiled, and started the plate meeting.

If you conduct yourself in a professional manner and don't allow anybody to walk over you, the game will be played and you will receive the respect you are due. If you fear that you aren't being taken seriously, start tossing players and coaches that don't show you the respect you deserve.

While I was pretty sure that the coaches comment was harmless, I kept an eye and an ear on the coach to see if I received any disrespect. After the game, the very same coach asked me if I would be willing to do more games for him at his home field. I told him he could speak with my assignor if that is what he wished.

While first impressions play a part, it is your actions and judgement on the field that the coaches and players will walk away with at the end of the game. Forget the age and appearance of the umpire, and look at the performance.
__________________
Larry

Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball.
- Harry Caray
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 10:15pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally posted by jumpmaster
We had a situation in our association at a 16-18 year old tournament this last weekend.

sitch - final day of the tournament and two games scheduled simultaneously. One game is the championship game, the other is a loser's bracket game. Both teams from the championship game and the winner of the loser's bracket game advance to the next level. 3 umpires, 1 a rookie (20 yoa), 2 veterans (one of which is the assignor, the other a respected big dog). The assignor determines that the rookie should call the loser's bracket game BY HIMSELF and the 2 vets should call championship game.

I have 2 problems with this situation 1)a 20 yoa calling a 16-18 tourney, 2) the assignor putting a rookie on a field by himself in a losers bracket final.
A. What, if any, action should be taken against the assignor for poor judgement?
B. What, if any, action should be taken against the other vet for not stepping up and attempting to stop this?
A "championship game" is not a championship game unless the winner wins the tournament.

A. Sounds like the assignor did not do his job to have 4 umps available for 2 simultaneous games. But let's assume for a moment, that it was unavoidable. If so, I would have assinged the most experienced ump to do the loser bracket game by himself, and put the 2nd most experienced ump amd the 20 YO would have done the other game. If 20 YO is qualified to be doing this level of ball in the first place then I don't think it would matter which one was where. If you don't like how it worked out get a new assignor next year, or for the "real" championship game.

B. If I am the other vet then I do what assignor says do. I feel fine.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 29, 2004, 10:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally posted by jumpmaster
We had a situation in our association at a 16-18 year old tournament this last weekend.

sitch - final day of the tournament and two games scheduled simultaneously. One game is the championship game, the other is a loser's bracket game. Both teams from the championship game and the winner of the loser's bracket game advance to the next level. 3 umpires, 1 a rookie (20 yoa), 2 veterans (one of which is the assignor, the other a respected big dog). The assignor determines that the rookie should call the loser's bracket game BY HIMSELF and the 2 vets should call championship game.

I have 2 problems with this situation 1)a 20 yoa calling a 16-18 tourney, 2) the assignor putting a rookie on a field by himself in a losers bracket final.
A. What, if any, action should be taken against the assignor for poor judgement?
B. What, if any, action should be taken against the other vet for not stepping up and attempting to stop this?
Just curious, but why are your two questions connected to a desire for punishment instead of just asking for input on how others would have handled this?
__________________
GB
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 30, 2004, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bentonville, AR
Posts: 461
Send a message via AIM to jumpmaster Send a message via MSN to jumpmaster Send a message via Yahoo to jumpmaster
Quote:
Originally posted by GarthB
Just curious, but why are your two questions connected to a desire for punishment instead of just asking for input on how others would have handled this? [/B]
I had not thought of this. After thinking about this, there are 3 reasons.
1) This is a case of bad judgement by 2 experienced umpires
2) 2 experienced umpires left a rookie to swim with the sharks, by himself
3) There appears to be dishonesty by the assignor
4) I was taught to fix problems, sometimes you fix with punishment, sometimes you don't.

Thanks Garth, yet another lesson in "say what you mean, mean what you say..."
__________________
Alan Roper

Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 30, 2004, 04:41pm
Ref Ump Welsch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It appears as if the championship game not only decided the champion, but also advanced the two teams automatically, plus the winner of the loser bracket game to another tournament following this one. So, the championship game in this case looks and sounds like a championship game.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1