Need help to resolve a protest

[aepitaz]

A playoff game has been protested, and I am looking for help to resolve it. Here is the situation:

Runners on First and Second with zero outs. A shallow pop fly is lifted to center (maybe infield fly, maybe not, didn't see it, it lands 13 steps into center field). The plate umpire for no reason shouts "The batter is Out!". He does not declare "Infield Fly", he does not raise his hands nor does he kill the play. The ball is ofcourse dropped. There is a play at 3rd, but runner beats the throw. So we have a bases loaded situation.

The Defensive manager protests the game saying that the Infield Fly was called so the batter should be out and the runners left alone.

The game played on from the bases loaded (zero outs) point.

Is there anything interpretation, manual, or anything written that I can point to to either uphold or reject the protest?

Thanks.

(I edited to fix my manager typo).

[Edited by aepitaz on Jun 28th, 2004 at 09:53 AM]

[bluezebra]

I hope you mean devfensive manager, not umpire.

Read the rule book you league plays with. On an infield fly, the batter is out, the ball remains live. If not caught, runners may advance at their own risk. They're not forced, but must be tagged.

Since the batter was out, the bases CANNOT be "loaded" Continue the game with runners at 3B and 2B, and ONE out.

You left out a major point. Did the situation have a bearing on the final score? If the "D" won, there is no protest. If the ruling did not affect the final score, deny the protest. Example: If the "O" won by enough runs without any runs that may have scored because of the foul-up, deny the protest.

In a playoff game, situations should be resolved on the field, NOT later. There must be someone at the game to rule on these situations at the time they occur.

[Edited by bluezebra on Jun 27th, 2004 at 11:38 PM]

[DG]

Originally posted by aepitaz
A playoff game has been protested, and I am looking for help to resolve it. Here is the situation:

Runners on First and Second with zero outs. A shallow pop fly is lifted to center (maybe infield fly, maybe not, didn't see it, it lands 13 steps into center field). The plate umpire for no reason shouts "The batter is Out!". He does not declare "Infield Fly", he does not raise his hands nor does he kill the play. The ball is ofcourse dropped. There is a play at 3rd, but runner beats the throw. So we have a bases loaded situation.

The Defensive umpire protests the game saying that the Infield Fly was called so the batter should be out and the runners left alone.

The game played on from the bases loaded (zero outs) point.

Is there anything interpretation, manual, or anything written that I can point to to either uphold or reject the protest?

Thanks.

The plate umpire must have a reason to call the batter out, and the only one available is infield fly. He would not kill the play on infield fly, the ball is live and runners advance on their own risk.

I assume you mean "defensive coach" protests instead of "defensive umpire". If the umpire said he interpreted infield fly then his protest will be overturned as this is a judgement call. 13 steps into CF is irrelevant if the umpire judged that the ball was easily catchable, with ordinary effort, by an infielder. If he calls out the batter "for no reason" then the appeal will be upheld. The umpire should know why he called an out.

[rmstone]

Sounds like the umpire intended to call infield fly, just did it inproperly...

But the fact that he didnt yell "infield fly" or "point" doesn't matter... all he really has to make sure he does is call the batter out! If the batter is out the force outs are all gone and runners can advance at their own risk... (hmm sounds a lot like infield fly, cause it is!)

"Infield Fly!" isn't really a call, its just a reason WHY, the batter being out is the call.

And no matter what, if he was called out, then hes out... unless the umpire changed his call. (Sticky situation). If he claims he mistakenly made the call and reverses it (bad idea) then you can say that the force outs were still in effect, BUT since the runner beat the throw to third nothing changes and you do have bases loaded.

So to me, it comes down to did he call the batter out or not and did he change this call on the field to produce bases loaded. Otherwise the batter is OUT and you have runners on 2nd and 3rd.

[DG]

Originally posted by bluezebra
I hope you mean devfensive manager, not umpire.

Read the rule book you league plays with. On an infield fly, the batter is out, the ball remains live. If not caught, runners may advance at their own risk. They're not forced, but must be tagged.

Since the batter was out, the bases CANNOT be "loaded" Continue the game with runners at 3B and 2B, and ONE out.

You left out a major point. Did the situation have a bearing on the final score? If the "D" won, there is no protest. If the ruling did not affect the final score, deny the protest. Example: If the "O" won by enough runs without any runs that may have scored because of the foul-up, deny the protest.

In a playoff game, situations should be resolved on the field, NOT later. There must be someone at the game to rule on these situations at the time they occur.

[Edited by bluezebra on Jun 27th, 2004 at 11:38 PM]

Even if the protest has no bearing on the game it should be ruled on, for future reference, since protests are for rules interpretations only. Every tournament I have ever been involved in has a protest committee for each game, to rule on protests, when they happen.

[nine01c]

I think you meant the defensive coach (not umpire), and I'm in agreement with him. In your description, the PU has declared the "batter OUT," although he did it in a "sloppy" way, he was enforcing the IFF. Once he yelled the OUT! it can't be reversed (IMO). He was correct in not raising his hands and killing play (ball is alive on IFF).

The game should have had a director on site to sort this out before the game was resumed. If that director knew the rules, you would have batter OUT and runners on 2B and 3B (if R1 advanced).

I'm not sure if this is protestable or not, it probably depends on your leagues guidelines, but the team has a ligitimate beef if they lost by the number of runs scored after that play.

[DG]

Originally posted by nine01c
I think you meant the defensive coach (not umpire), and I'm in agreement with him. In your description, the PU has declared the "batter OUT," although he did it in a "sloppy" way, he was enforcing the IFF. Once he yelled the OUT! it can't be reversed (IMO). He was correct in not raising his hands and killing play (ball is alive on IFF).

The game should have had a director on site to sort this out before the game was resumed. If that director knew the rules, you would have batter OUT and runners on 2B and 3B (if R1 advanced).

I'm not sure if this is protestable or not, it probably depends on your leagues guidelines, but the team has a ligitimate beef if they lost by the number of runs scored after that play.

It is certainly protestable if the PU shouts "the batter is out", in a possible IFF situation, and then the game proceeds with bases loaded (ie batter is on 1B with no out).

[aepitaz]

I think what it is boiling down to is that the plate umpire prematurely called the Infield Fly rule and then changed his mind.

By continuing with bases loaded, it tells me that he changed his mind on the play. So to continue with bases loaded would be the right play.

The questions are:
Can he change his mind? We have all seen an umpire call a batter out on a dropped third strike, or seen an out call and then have the fielder drop the ball. Does this fall into that category (I know it shouldn't happen, but it does.)

Does the umpire calling "Batter is Out!", make the Infield Fly rule called?

I understand about protests, playoffs, immediate decisions, etc., but this is what this league does.

[nine01c]

Personally, I feel this is akin to yelling FOUL! then realizing "Oh, @#$%, that ball is FAIR." Well, once you have yelled FOUL! that's the call you must stick with (and just hope it was a close one). Except for, perhaps a posible Home Run, runners and fielders can't be told FOUL then be expected to adjust to the change to FAIR. Yelling Batter's OUT! seems unchangable to me.

[Gee]

A foul call IS changeable in certain situations.

If the calling ump calls Foul Ball inadvertantly and then immediately changes it to fair ball, play continues with the fair ball. However, if ANY runner or fielder involved in the play reacts to the foul call, it would revert back to foul. G.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Gee
A foul call IS changeable in certain situations.

If the calling ump calls Foul Ball inadvertantly and then immediately changes it to fair ball, play continues with the fair ball. However, if ANY runner or fielder involved in the play reacts to the foul call, it would revert back to foul. G.

I'm pretty sure that in FED once you call foul, you can't change it.

[Gee]

Don't do Fed ball and don't remember it being mentioned in the post I posted to. If it was, I apologize, G.

[DG]

Calling FOUL is like calling STRIKE, timing is everything and once called, there is no changing, IMO. I call BALL with about 50% of the voice of STRIKE, but considering how loud I call STRIKE there should be no mistake. Likewise, infield fly, once called is called, every infielder will know it, and most spectators. At least if you are loud the coaches will think you are convinced, it's part of selling the call