ejection/forfeit

dpr528 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 26, 2004, 09:33am

Ok, here's a situation I had a couple days ago in a high school age, everybody plays league. Game is going along Ok, although visiting team is up by quite a bit. I know game has to be close to a 10 run difference, although I'm not sure of exact score. This league has 10 run mercy rule in effect after 5 innings. At the end of 5 the visiting coach informs me that the score is 12-2 so I say ok, 10 run rule, that's game. Home coach(who's a notorious mouther and problem) starts screaming that it's only 11-2, games not over. I then state(as he continues mouthing that I'm a terrible ump, his book says 11-2, etc.) that we have a discrepancy in the books so we need to get them together and try to work it out. I tell him if we can't work it out then home team's book is the official one and we go with that. He continues to mouth, tells his scorekeeper not to go to the visiting teams scorekeeper, and is basically just being an a** and continuing to state his book is all that matters. At this point I tell him he's out of the game and if he keeps mouthing about it I'll just call the game. He of course kept mouthing and causing trouble and never seemed to really want to work out the discrepancy, so I called the game. By the way, the visitors were more than happy to try to get together and work things out. I'm not sure if I overreacted(by calling the game before examining the books, underreactted(by not tossing the coach sooner), or what and would like some feedback. This is a coach who pretty much everyone has problems with and I reported the situation to the directors of the league who were present and have put a call in to the head umpire regarding this situation. If it matters, I'm a pretty mild mannered guy, who also does basketball officiating and have only given 1 technical foul in the past 4 years and have never ejected someone from baseball in about 10 years of umping. I generally go with the flow, but felt this was way overboard. I'm guessing I'll get some opinions for my actions and some against, but am interested in what other's think. Thanks.

DG · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 26, 2004, 10:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by dpr528
Ok, here's a situation I had a couple days ago in a high school age, everybody plays league. Game is going along Ok, although visiting team is up by quite a bit. I know game has to be close to a 10 run difference, although I'm not sure of exact score. This league has 10 run mercy rule in effect after 5 innings. At the end of 5 the visiting coach informs me that the score is 12-2 so I say ok, 10 run rule, that's game. Home coach(who's a notorious mouther and problem) starts screaming that it's only 11-2, games not over. I then state(as he continues mouthing that I'm a terrible ump, his book says 11-2, etc.) that we have a discrepancy in the books so we need to get them together and try to work it out. I tell him if we can't work it out then home team's book is the official one and we go with that. He continues to mouth, tells his scorekeeper not to go to the visiting teams scorekeeper, and is basically just being an a** and continuing to state his book is all that matters. At this point I tell him he's out of the game and if he keeps mouthing about it I'll just call the game. He of course kept mouthing and causing trouble and never seemed to really want to work out the discrepancy, so I called the game. By the way, the visitors were more than happy to try to get together and work things out. I'm not sure if I overreacted(by calling the game before examining the books, underreactted(by not tossing the coach sooner), or what and would like some feedback. This is a coach who pretty much everyone has problems with and I reported the situation to the directors of the league who were present and have put a call in to the head umpire regarding this situation. If it matters, I'm a pretty mild mannered guy, who also does basketball officiating and have only given 1 technical foul in the past 4 years and have never ejected someone from baseball in about 10 years of umping. I generally go with the flow, but felt this was way overboard. I'm guessing I'll get some opinions for my actions and some against, but am interested in what other's think. Thanks.

Something I don't understand. The home manager is the one mouthing and you have already told him you will go with his book if the discrepancy can't be worked out, so he would be getting what he wants. He clearly does not want to work it out for fear his book is wrong.

I think you showed more restraint than most folks on this site would show by not tossing him the first time he directed a personal comment at you (ie you are a terrible ump). Toss him, direct the scorekeepers to get together, and participate in the discussion with them. You may recall something that will help resolve it, ie such as whether a run scored or not, in a timing situation. Once he is tossed there is no further activity of any kind until he is out of sight and sound and if he will not leave or shut up the game is over.

Sounds like the end result was ok, but just a little slow getting there.

Sounds like you did a good job

rmstone · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 26, 2004, 10:07am

Sounds good, boot him and call the game...

If he won't try to work it out then theres nothing more you can do... just because the home teams book is the official one doesn't mean he can make up whatever score he wants, he still has to prove it within a reasonable doubt....

It doesn't sound like your a big EJ'er so I'd say this guy probably deserved it... good job!

dpr528 · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 26, 2004, 12:22pm

[Something I don't understand. The home manager is the one mouthing and you have already told him you will go with his book if the discrepancy can't be worked out, so he would be getting what he wants. He clearly does not want to work it out for fear his book is wrong.

This coach is one who whether he was right or wrong would have tried to cause problems I think. He's a real piece of work.

I think you showed more restraint than most folks on this site would show by not tossing him the first time he directed a personal comment at you (ie you are a terrible ump). Toss him, direct the scorekeepers to get together, and participate in the discussion with them. You may recall something that will help resolve it, ie such as whether a run scored or not, in a timing situation. Once he is tossed there is no further activity of any kind until he is out of sight and sound and if he will not leave or shut up the game is over.

Sounds like the end result was ok, but just a little slow getting there.

Sounds like you did a good job [/B][/QUOTE]

jumpmaster · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 07:46am

coaches like this one really irritate me. At the HS level, coaches still have an obligation to set an example for their players. I will allow a coach to come out and discuss, as an adult, a call. If I blow a call, I expect to get a chewing from coach. That said, this coach did 2 no-nos in my book and is going home.
1) he made his comments personal - "You...", unless he says that "You are the greatest umpire ever" he's going home.
2) he made an a$$ out of himself apparently because he could.

All in all - good call. HHH advocates a no tolerance policy with coaches and his rapid ejections prevent situations like this from developing. You might try it with this coach. It is a very effective persuasive technique.