Save Condition

[wmandino]

In OBR 10.20 It states that a pitcher will be credited with a save when he meets all three of the following requirements. I'm having trouble understanding 3a. It states, "He pitches effectively for atleast three innings". What exactly does that mean?

[LDUB]

I think it means if he pitches for 3 or more innings, but does not win the game. Lets say the score is 5-1 going into the 6th inning. The reliver comes in and pitches 4 no run innings. He would get the save because he pitched the last three or more innings, and he did not win the game.

[wmandino]

so the starting pitcher gets the win and the reliever who pitched 4 innings gets the save. What is defined as "effectively"?

[LDUB]

Originally posted by wmandino
so the starting pitcher gets the win and the reliever who pitched 4 innings gets the save. What is defined as "effectively"?

I'm not sure, but I thnik it means as long as his team is ahead the whole time.

[BoomerSooner]

Effectively suggests, at least to official scorers, that of course the lead is not surrendered in which case the reliever is credited with a blown save, but may still get a win. Along with that is the idea that in a 10-1 game if a reliever comes in and pitches the last 3 or 4 innings and only wins 10-9 he wasn't that effective and therefore only maintained the team win by the fortunate effects of good run support and as a result no save should be credited.

I was once told to consider any relief pitcher that gives up 3 or more runs (remember runners already on base aren't credited to him) as ineffective. It goes to the idea that if this pitcher were brought into the game in the 9th with a 3 run lead (largest lead allowed in a typical 9th inning save situation) and gave up 3 or more runs he certainly would get a save in this situation, so why credit a save if he pitched 3 or 4 innings.

Of course, there is always that level of subjectivity involved with making the judgement because there are no set rules as to what is "effective". Its just like so many of those wonderful calls the we umps have to make...its a judgement.

[wmandino]

in obr 10.20 rule 3a states the same thing as rule 3c
3a.--He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for atleast one inning. Now 3c.--He pitches effectively for atleast three innings.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by wmandino
in obr 10.20 rule 3a states the same thing as rule 3c
3a.--He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for atleast one inning. Now 3c.--He pitches effectively for atleast three innings.

No it's different. A is saying that when he comes in, his team must be up by no more than three, and he only has to pitch one inning.

B says that if he pitches three or more innings, it does not matter what the score was when he came in. It could be 10-0 and he would still get a save.

[wmandino]

Wouldnt the rule be the same if (c) was left out of the rule?

[w_sohl]

forget the word effective. If a reliever comes into a game no later than the seventh inning if the visitor and sixth if the home with a lead, I don't care if it is 5-1 or 25-1, as long as the lead is not relinquieshed he is credited with a save. If fewer than three innings with the lead the lead has to be equal to or less than the number of baserunners and batters to be faced by such reliever. For example, Troy Percival comes into a game in the ninth inning up 1-0, all he has to do is hold the lead and face at least one batter to record a save. Same sitch except they now lead 5-0, if there is nooone on base all he can face is three batters which cannot tie or take the lead (you cannot pitch yourself into a save sitchuation) if there are at least two baserunners the baserunners plus the batters equal five therefore a tie can happen and this is a save sitchuation. Any questions or anything you don't understand just ask. This is the way I understand the save stat and I am pretty sure this is exactly correct.

[DG]

Originally posted by w_sohl
forget the word effective. If a reliever comes into a game no later than the seventh inning if the visitor and sixth if the home with a lead, I don't care if it is 5-1 or 25-1, as long as the lead is not relinquieshed he is credited with a save. If fewer than three innings with the lead the lead has to be equal to or less than the number of baserunners and batters to be faced by such reliever. For example, Troy Percival comes into a game in the ninth inning up 1-0, all he has to do is hold the lead and face at least one batter to record a save. Same sitch except they now lead 5-0, if there is nooone on base all he can face is three batters which cannot tie or take the lead (you cannot pitch yourself into a save sitchuation) if there are at least two baserunners the baserunners plus the batters equal five therefore a tie can happen and this is a save sitchuation. Any questions or anything you don't understand just ask. This is the way I understand the save stat and I am pretty sure this is exactly correct.

If the pitcher comes on in the 9th, with 2 men on and a 5-0 lead he can not get a save. To get a save the tieing run must be on base, batting, or on deck when he arrives to pitch. In this case, the on deck batter represents a possible 4th run, and since they are leading by 5, no save.
If he comes on in time to pitch 3 innings and gives up 3-4 runs in a 5-1 game, he will get the hook before he gets to pitch 3 so he will not get the save.

[wmandino]

some managers might leave the pitcher in the game. I somewhat understand the rule now, If they leave off 3c than the rule would make better sense. I guess what I'm saying is that 3c was throwing me.