Two questions really. All the umpires in our league have been arguing over these for some time.

1. If you have a pitcher in the stretch with his pivot foot on the rubber and his free foot in front, ball in hand, hands at his sides: can he step FORWARD off the mound to disengage or is this a balk? I can't find anything in the rulebook that says what a pitcher can't do before actually coming set. Also if this is a balk and he must step off the back then is a pitcher kicking the dirt out in front of the rubber balking because he is engaging and disengaging?

2. If a runner is hit by a batted ball prior to passing an infielder hes out. But, does the pitcher count as an infielder since the rulebook says he becomes one after releasing. We assume this doesn't include the pitcher or there would never be an out by batted ball since all balls pass the pitcher before reaching a runner, we just can't back up our argument with anything in the rulebook.

Your thoughts?
Thanks,
-Randy

1a. The pitcher must step backwards off the rubber with his pivot foot or it is a balk. And no, we don't consider them to be engaging and disengaging the rubber while kicking out dirt. They may stop and throw to a base as long as they gain direction and distance towards that base. And if they over throw to DBT, it is a two base award.

2. The pitcher does not count as a fielder for this instance. He also does not count as a fielder for the ball hitting an umpire prior to passing a fielder.

yeah but where are these in the rulebook?

1. The book says that in the SET position you must step off backwards... YET it defines the set position as holding the ball with both hands in front of his body, which isn't the case here because he hands are at his side. It does not refer to anything you can't do before actually being SET that I can find.

2. Where is this in the rulebook? Is it just something thats missing from the book and its assumed or what?

1. Check out OBR 8.01 (A) (3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides). In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first. He may not go into a set or stretch position if he does it is a balk.

2. OBR 7.09

It is interference by a batter or a runner when:
(m) A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for interference. PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.

1. Yes thats the section on the windup... So the two problems with that are:

a. Hes not in a windup, hes in the stretch. That rule can't apply because "He may not go into a set or stretch position if he does it is a balk." And from the position that I defined HE CAN go into a set position, in fact its his only option.

b. If you read up higher it says: "If a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his entire pivot foot on or in front of and touching but not off the end of the pitcher's plate, and his other foot free, he will be considered in a windup position. From this position he may: ..." - He's not holding the ball with boths hands thus this doesn't apply.

2. Ok, as I read it now it makes sense... since the pitcher has no play on it the ball isn't going through or by him. Also you can assume on 99% of these plays that anything that goes BY the pitcher can be played by another infielder. Thanks for clearing that one up!

There is no "stretch position." There is a set position and a windup position. In the set position, the pitcher can take a preliminary motion known as the "stretch." Once engaged, the pitcher can only disengage legally by stepping back with the pivot foot -- in either position.

Correct, but hes NOT IN either position so how can he balk? I know it seems like I'm trying to be a pain here but the book really doesn't explain this well. He's not making a "motion" so its not the stretch (thus not the set position), and hes not in the windup or the set position either because both require him to hold the ball with both hands.

Let me give another example. The pitcher stands in the above position (which I mistakenly called the "stretch" but the stretch is really the motion) with one foot on the rubber, ball in his hand, hands at his side. If he turns his shoulder to first, its not a balk right? Now NO WHERE in the rulebook does it say that. It simply says in the SET POSITION he can't do that, yet he can do that here so he's not in the set position. This is just one example of how a pitcher in the said position is exempt from balking.

Any thoughts?

1) No where in OBR does "tunrning the shoulders" equal a balk. It's a balk to "feint to first" -- whether in the set or the "stretch".

2) All the balk rules apply when the pitcher intentionally contacts the rubber (and you won't find that phrasing under OBR either). You can find lots of examples where the rule book taken too literally would result in a game completely unlike baseball.

When the pitcher has his pivot foot on the rubber,

(Remember, once the pitcher puts his pivot foot on the rubber he is now operating under the pitching rules and in order to disengage he must step back with his pivot foot as described under OBR 8.01(e).)

his free foot in front of the rubber and his hands at his side, he is in 'SET STANCE'. From that position he may stretch and come to the 'SET' position.

Most umpires give the pitcher a little more lee way when they are in set stance than they do when their in set, for obvious reasons.

Under OBR, as opposed to FED, a pitcher when in 'set stance' is allowed to turn his shoulder to first base and it is not considered a feint and a balk. Once the pitcher gets in a 'set' position the shoulder turn COULD be considered a feint and a balk depending on the speed of the turn and the umpire's judgment. G.

I see where your comming from, so it's really just implied.

But I would expect it to be one way or the other... either all balks should apply pre-stretch or none of them should.

But all in all its ENTIRELY up to the umpire and whether or not they ASSUME from the book that a pre-stretch is a pitching position and balks apply.

Seems like the OBR needs to be updated with some correct wording on this stuff. In a game so technical the idea of "umpires give more lee way" doesn't really cut it. It should be a clear cut balk or not a balk.

If you ask me though I still wouldn't call it a balk. The rulebook doesn't say he can't do it from that position thus its not a balk... quite a perplexing problem...

1) I think it would depend on his purpose. If he is stepping off the front (with both hands at his side) to talk to the cathcer then no balk. If he is stepping off the front to throw home for a runner stealing, then balk. Did he gain an adantage or trick a runner"? If yes, balk, if no, no balk. This could go into the "highly technical balk" category.
2) 5.09f covers the play in question. The pitcher counts as an infielder. Example, if he can field the ball, but it goes between his legs and hits a runner with SS getting ready to field the ball, why would we treat this any different that going through the 3B legs and hitting the runner with SS getting ready to field the ball? Only one infielder is protected on this play. If pitcher can't reach the ball in play then he is not the one protected, and therefore the ball going by him is not relevant.

Thanks, great answers!

1. In the situation in case his coach had yelled "stop" and he had just stepped forward, squared up and waited for the coach to come out. There was no advantage gained on any runner and he didn't attempt to pick anyone off...

2. Got ya!

"Under OBR, as opposed to FED, a pitcher when in 'set stance' is allowed to turn his shoulder to first base and it is not considered a feint and a balk"

Correct! Because OBR doesn't SAY its a balk, so my original #1 question is not a balk because its in the same category, hes not set or windup thus it doesnt say its a balk...

It seems like we are confusing set position with "coming set".

All of the answers are good, but to clarify - from the set position, he cannot step forward first with the foot that is engaged with the pitching plate.

If he does, it is a balk because he failed to deliver a pitch after having engaged the pitching plate and then stepping forward.

All balks are "technical" in nature. I still hear guys saying, "Balk, he stepped off with the wrong foot." No, he stepped off with the correct foot, he just didn't deliver a pitch. Sorry for being so "technical".

Balks are easy calls, if it fooled you - call it. We penalize those who cheat are stupid. most of the time they are both.

right! Thanks... this has really been bothering us with everyone saying its a balk so I wanted to be clear on the answer...

Another detail of the "step off" that confuses me is the "drop the hands to the sides." I see alot of 14 year old games. Many of the pitchers step back and then snap a throw to first while set or while coming to the set position. With the hands in front at or above the belt they break their hands and throw to first. They do not "drop their hands to their sides." If they did, the step off move would be virtually useless as the delay would allow the runner to return easily. Yet I never see this called as a balk. What am I missing?

What makes you think "failing to drop their hands to the side" is a balk? (That is, where in the book is this listed as a balk?) ;)

Official Rules:

8.01
Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time. Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while standing on the rubber. Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.

That is talking about if he steps off and just stands there. Think about this, pitcher comes set, then steps off. He should drop his hands to his sides, in order not to confuse the batter. If the pitcher were to step off and keep his hands together, then take a step foreward with his non pivot foot, this could be considered a balk according to rule 8.05 (g).

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when (g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher's plate;

I certainly agree that the phrase "drop his hands..." comes in the context of the quick pitch rule. But elsewhere the rules are more explicit. For example, it could say "except if the pitcher throws the ball to a base." The simple declarative sentence using the word "must" seems unambiguous that dropping the hands to sides is mandatory when disengaging the rubber.

Using the rule you quoted, I cannot imagine the first few inches of movement to throw to first while straddling the rubber could be discerned to be different from the first few inches of starting a pitch, like breaking the hands and lifting the front foot. This makes such a move a balk by the rule you quoted.

I constantly coach our runners that until the pitcher comes to his "stop" in the set position the only place he can legally throw is to a base. Thus, think only "back" until the stop. Obviously, a step off with the pivot foot should also trigger the "back" response.

The intent of the balk rule seems to be to prohibit deceiving the runner, not the batter. The "step ahead of the throw" rule is negated when the pitcher is an infielder (i.e., when he is not on the rubber). It seems to me that when in one continuous motion the pitcher steps back and slings to first, his intent is to deceive the runner. The plain language of the rules requires the dropping of the hands when disengaging.

If you tell me the tradition and common law is that this rule is not interpreted as a "must" in all circumstances, so be it.

Right -- but there's no penalty listed for that.

By "tradition", it's interpreted to mean "separate the hands before re-engaging the rubber." See JEA, for example.

Literally that would be hard!
 

As Bob said there is no penalty listed.

Its dangerous to take the rules as they state.

By the above the pitcher when he steps back would have to drop his hands to his side, then he could make a move to a base etc.,

How would a pitcher make a quick move to a base, since he must drop his hands first.

We have to read the rules in the context of the paragraph, and in above they are discussing the quick pitch.

Thanks
David

OK I'll beat the dead horse a little more...The title of the paragraph is "Legal Pitch Delivery", not "Quick Pitch". The paragraph defines, among other things, the two legal pitching deliveries, not just quick pitches. The legal rules governing the interpretation of statues is that the "plain language" meaning gets highest priority. You guys are telling me that "case law" defies the plain language. This would not be the first time, as judges have interpreted the same law in opposite ways! I know you are "right" empirically because I have never found an umpire who disagrees with you. But we all know what we call a lawyer with an IQ of 40...."Your Honor".

I think the term "drop his hands" is there to make sure we call a balk if while stepping off with a legal foot he is raising his hands above his head, like he would be in making a pitching motion, which would be deceiving the runner. If he steps without dropping hands, but makes no other movement upwards with his hands, then no balk. He will eventually drop his hands after he steps off.

Separate the hands
 

The term I like to use is to separate the hands. That's what I will tell the young pitchers.

I think that's a little better and easier to understand than drop the hands.

Thanks
David

So what we've all learned is the OBR are terrible, ambiguous rules that need re-written so that they govern the game we call baseball...

You can forget actually finding anything CLEAR in the OBR...

If OBR rules were written "clearly" we'd have another rules book as thick as the FED's!

Jim Evans Balk Video
 

Invest a few bucks in a very good video from Jim Evans. It demonstrates a whole lot of the do's and don'ts and what is and what is not allowed regarding pitching and balks enforcement.

I purchased a copy to use for our local umpire training this year. Very good information. Much better than "See A Balk, Call a Balk", which I purchased a couple of years ago.
Here's the link for Jim Evans.
http://www.umpireacademy.com/tapes.html