Right or Wrong

wobster · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 07:25am

Playing summer league under OBR. Here's the sitch.

R1, R2, R3, BR hits a grounder to 3B. 3B misfields the ball, but he kicked it, and stops between his feet. He reaches down to pick it up, and is standing directly in the baseline. R2 runs into him, not hard, or probably even intentional, both stumble, R3 makes it to 3rd. What are the penalties.

I ruled basically no penalty. R3 was obstructed, but the fielder was in the act of catching the ball. R2 interfered with F5, but there was already an error which had killed the possibility for an out and he was in the baseline.

Offensive coach says that should have been R2 getting 3B and home. He said obstruction is always an extra base beyond what they could have gotten. I checked it out in the rule book. nope. Rule book states at least one base from the last legally touched base. That was 3rd.

Right or Wrong Guys?

mcrowder · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 07:53am

Obstruction is - runner cannot be called out between the bases where he's obstructed. Umpire COULD have given him home had he ruled that that's where the runner would have ended up without the obstruction ... but that doesn't sound appropriate to this case.

LMan · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 08:01am

? I thought a fielder was protected when he was in the act of fielding a batted ball - even after the misplay it was within easy reach..or does his protection end after the original misplay? This is not interference?

Plus, if 3d was the last legally acquired base, he would get home. Did you mean 2d was his last acquired base, or did I misread your sitch?

wobster · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 08:04am

LMan - 2nd was the last acquired base when he was obstructed.

The coach jumped on me between innings, and I told him if I wanted to, I could have called his runner out for running into the fielder. He said "No, way, you will never prove that to me" This is one of my town league coaches, and I have heard that he jumps on all the umpires and he is always wrong. I may have to have a talk with him.

PeteBooth · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 08:05am

Originally posted by wobster

Playing summer league under OBR. Here's the sitch.

R1, R2, R3, BR hits a grounder to 3B. 3B misfields the ball, but he kicked it, and stops between his feet. He reaches down to pick it up, and is standing directly in the baseline. R2 runs into him, not hard, or probably even intentional, both stumble, R3 makes it to 3rd. What are the penalties.

First off on BATTED balls, INTENT is not a requirement. If the runner interfered, he / she interfered whether they meant to or not.

When a batted ball is hit, we as umpires judge which fielder gets PROTECTION, meaning the runner must NOT interfere with the fielders attempt to field the ball. In other words, the fielder has the "right away"

Now the question? - When does the Protection end?

Normally, the Protection ends as soon as the Fielder Releases the ball, however should the Fielder mishandle the ball, he/she is STILL protected if the ball is within a "step and reach". Since the ball was at F5's Feet, IMO F5 is still protected at this point.

Therefore, without actually being there and going by your wording of events, here's the call.

1. TIME
2. That's interference
3. R2 out.

R3 back to third; R1 to second and B1 to first.

Now let's assume the ball was kicked or mishandled and rolled several feet passed F5 and F5 was still in the base-line when R2 collided with him/her. In this scenario, one could rule Obstruction Type "B", wait until playing action is over and then impose any penalties (if any) to negate the act of Obstruction. In your play I would award R2 third base (assuming he was put out).

Pete Booth

[Edited by PeteBooth on Jun 17th, 2004 at 10:35 AM]

LMan · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 08:07am

ok, I reread your sitch, I misread, sorry. I agree that 3B is where he should be placed. Still thinking interference here otherwise

GarthB · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 09:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by wobster
Playing summer league under OBR. Here's the sitch.

R1, R2, R3, BR hits a grounder to 3B. 3B misfields the ball, but he kicked it, and stops between his feet. He reaches down to pick it up, and is standing directly in the baseline. R2 runs into him, not hard, or probably even intentional, both stumble, R3 makes it to 3rd. What are the penalties.

I ruled basically no penalty. R3 was obstructed, but the fielder was in the act of catching the ball. R2 interfered with F5, but there was already an error which had killed the possibility for an out and he was in the baseline.

Offensive coach says that should have been R2 getting 3B and home. He said obstruction is always an extra base beyond what they could have gotten. I checked it out in the rule book. nope. Rule book states at least one base from the last legally touched base. That was 3rd.

Right or Wrong Guys?

Wrong. Interference by R2, play is killed, he is out. batter gets first, R1 is forced to second and R3 is returned to third.

wobster · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 09:55am

I didn't call interference because I wasn't sure how far the fielder was protected. He misplayed the ball, and turned around to pick it up and got hit.

Oops.

Roger Greene · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 11:42am

I've got a question. How close was F5 to 3rd base?

I poses a sitch to a different group (you might remember, Garth) I witnessed a couple of years ago in which a fielder was attempting to field a batted ball within a couple of feet of the bag directly in the baepath. The runner (forced in the case I witnessed) executed a legal slide into the base, upending the fielder and plainly preventing his fielding of the batted ball. (The runner had left on the pitch, thereby allowing him to arive at the same time as the batted ball.)

There was agreement in the other group that the actions of the runner were not interference, as his only options were to execute the slide, or give himself up.

Admittedly, this is a very rare case. I've only seen it once in my lifetime.

Roger Greene

wobster · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 12:00pm

They were about 7-8 feet from bag. I had a bet with the coach that I was right that the runner didn't get home base. I should have called interference. Oh well. As it was I had 2 coaches yelling at me that the runner got home. If I had called him out, I would have had a team without an assistant or a manager. But NOTE: That had nothing to do with my call.

greymule · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 01:56pm

There was agreement in the other group that the actions of the runner were not interference, as his only options were to execute the slide, or give himself up.

I'd go with interference on that play. The runner has to avoid the fielder, if it means stopping or going behind.

Admittedly, this is a very rare case. I've only seen it once in my lifetime.

About 10 years ago, I had what seems to me a similar play. A runner from 2B slid into F5 as F5 was fielding a popup next to 3B, maybe 2 feet toward 2B in the base line. Just as I was calling interference, the runner shouted, "He was in the base line." So we had a rhubarb even though F5 caught the ball anyway for the third out.