The hands are not part of the Bat, at least in our league.

First of all the rules state "must slide OR avoid contact".

You will probably NEVER see a "must slide rule" by any legitimate organized league because if little Johnny slides and hurts hisself, than little Johnny's parents are going to sue your butt for his injuries.

Look at these last two posts... We need to stop hijacking posts. This post is about HBP in LL (9-10).

Is this another one of those self imposed umpire's ruling?????

"He explained to the coaches that it was a rule in the little league rule book that after 4 hit batters the pitcher MUST be pulled out of game. We couldn't find that rule in the book after studying it last night!"

He must have printed his own LL rule book. And you couldn't find that 'rule', because it doesn't exist.

Several of the umpires in our league cover this issue in ground rules. They state that while it is not in the rules, it is within their discretion as an umpire to request that a pitcher be replaced after hitting 3 batters. A warning is given after each hit batter. I have never seen a coach complain since the ground rules are understood up front and plenty of warning is given.

Excuse me!

"within their discretion as an umpire".

I got to try this one. Im gonna start discretioning 5 inning games. Yea I like that!

Where is this League? I got some land in florida these coaches may be interested in also.

After one of my pitchers hit two batters in two pitches (accidentally -- these are 8 year olds) an ump informed me that if he hit another batter, I would have to remove the pitcher for safety reasons.

I'm on the fence on that one. As an ump and parent, I understand wanting to enforce safety. As a coach, I didn't like it since he's my best pitcher. He'd struk out four straight batters in 19 pitches before that. He just had two pitches get away from him and hit consecutive batters.

It ended up working okay in the end since he didn't hit anyone else, but I'm wondering from a rules perspective, what's the opinion of this group about an ump taking that sort of action?

OOO. Protest. Challenge the umpire on this.

9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

Sorry, you can't shorten the game since that is covered in the rules.

Unless the League hires you to be Umpire, Coach, Director, father, mother and the great Soothsayer of Baseball, mind your own dang business and stick to the rules your are paid to officiate by.

If you don't know what the rule is , by god ask the local people. But for heavean sake quit making it up.

Your joking right. I would be laughed off the field if I used that in the games I do.

I doth believe your wrong.

And does'nt the rules specifically say whe a batter is hie by a pitch , he is to be awarded first base.

[Edited by jicecone on Jun 11th, 2004 at 01:22 PM]

Playing devil's advocate regarding the application of 9.01(c)...

There are rules governing removing pitchers as well as governing what happens when someone gets hit by a pitch. Just like I can't decide that the pitch hit the batter REALLY hard so I'm awarding him second, I can't decide that the penalty for a pitcher hitting a batter is removal from the mound.

OK:
1. It's NOT in the Book; there simply is no such rule.
2. "Local Rules" be damned: the Babe Ruth and LL books both contain rules which clearly state that there is no authority for "local" changes in the playing rules without approval from the National Office. Therefore, the [regrettably common] insanities of "must slide" local rules are NOT PERMITTED. Next time some yokel "calls you" on one of these "local rules" that contradicts the published Official Rules, ask to see the letter from the National Office approving it.

Now, all that said, I have been in a similar situation; and there is a way, if you absolutely MUST, for safety, get that kid off the mound. Usually, this happens when a team has only one real pitcher, and (s)he is being "saved" for the money game - the kid on the mound is a danger to himself & others, and is beaning folk right and left.

This is Tournament, right? And, perhaps a "select" All-Star team? Which means that the kids SHOULD be good enough to do their jobs: which also SUGGESTS that the beanings MIGHT be intentional. This is a judgment call, obviously. While you are pondering your judgment, consider that it is hardly in the team's interest to be giving free passes by boinking batters accidentally, and the fact that the Coach isn't pulling his pitcher who seems to be consistently doing this also SUGGESTS intentionality, and by the way, that he is doing this at the direction of his Coach.

There is a book response for a pitcher who intentionally hits batters, or even throws AT them, right? And for his Coach who is instructing him to do so?

So, you might want to consider discussing these troublingthoughts with Bonko's Coach along these lines:

U: Gee, Coach, that's the 10th hit batter in the last two innings; I'm starting to worry that maybe this is intentional.

C: Hell, no, Blue, he's just wild tonite.

U: Well Coach, I can't just take your word for it, you know. I obviously don't want to eject anybody, and I've been giving y'all the benefit of the doubt so far. It's entirely up to you of course, but I hope you'll think about replacing that pitcher. Next guy he hits may convince me that it's on purpose, and I'll have no choice but to act then.

C: You can't do that!!!

U: Well, it is a JUDGMENT CALL, I'll just have to use my best judgment. I'm just asking you to use yours. OK, let's play ball.

OK, it's a long post. The solution, if you ABSOLUTELY MUST poke in, is to treat the HBP as an intentional beaning: don't "remove" the pitcher from the mound, eject him from the game. That IS in the rule book, and you'll "win" every protest - use the magic words, "In My Judgment".

But: "Local Rules require that the pitcher be lifted after 4 HBP"? B#!!&#!%%

Local leagues are going to add whatever extra rules they like and there is no need grumbling about it. Learn what they are and play by them. No big deal. Classic exmpale is time limits. Many have them, especially in the younger age groups. You can't go to the plate meeting and say "we are not going to use that local rule because it is not endorsed by the home office".

If you are going to go to the coach and say that you are going to render a judgement that the pitcher is throwing intentionally at the batter you may as well tell him if he stays in he is going to walk every batter. If the league has a "hit four batters rule" then remove him when he hits four batters. Everyody on both sides will know the local rule and nobody will argue about it, and parents for batting team will be extremely happy with your solid knowledge and enforecment of the local rules.