Hey everyone, Bear with me - This is a long post; but an interesting one~!

For those of you that dont know me my name is Patrick & I am a head umpire of a local recreational league. I recently was the BU for a 15-16y.o game. There were three ejections and 2 suspensions, would you have done anything differently?

Here was the story:
Team A was in the lead by 4 runs. Team B was up too bat. Top of the 5th. (We play 6 innings) Two out - no one on. Team B's batter hits the ball but only lets it go about 15 feet. The pitcher picks up the ball. The batter starts walking down the 1st base line. The pitcher walks down towards 1st base. The pitcher starts skipping (literally). The batter then runs like anything to 1st base. The 1st baseman was standing on the base waiting for the pitcher to throw the ball. The pitcher thinks he can out run the batter so he runs. The batter is at least 1-2 steps safe. Then the pitchers foot hits the base. I call & sell the safe signal. (Now the "fun" begins).

The parents start off in the stands..... "You have to be kidding me! etc.... So I made the call and went to position B. Then I hear the Shortstop say - "Dont worry about it he sucks any way" Then the pitcher turns around and says "Yeah he can't even make a F---ing call at first~ The F---ing blind.... Boom. He's Gone.

As I throw there all star pitcher out of the game... My PU throws the Shortstop out (I cant honestly say what they said but he did tell me later that he was making hand movements and also cursing).

As they left the field they were cursing again & again. They decided to sit in the stands. Cursing (F-word etc..) theirs mouths off so I walk over to the coach (by the way I am the UIC) and tell the coach that they need to leave the field or they would forefit... So the coach called their parents and made them leave.

Two down 1 to go........

Then with the score tied at 7-7. Bases loaded - 2 outs.... Team A was at bat (Visitors). A player hits a long long long (almost over the fence) fly ball my PU strattles the 1st baseline and calls it fair. I thought it was fair too and he didn't call fair. So he turns and looks at me. I point towards centerfield. As I do, he does too indicating a fair ball. - Home run - they win 11-7.

The coach comes out after the long ball call and starts throwing his bats on the field. Enough said - ejection.....

Another day at the ball park......
Questions? Comments? Tips?

Thanks.......

I think I might have gotten the SS first, which might have prevented the pitcher from running his mouth. Also, I don't understand the part about "almost over the fence", followed by a home run call, which I don't quite understand. Typical day at the ball park.

[Edited by DG on Jun 6th, 2004 at 10:15 PM]

I agree Pat, although I am not clear on the "almost over the fence" being called a home run? I think you made a typo or proofreading mistake. As far as how you handled the situation, I would give you an A. I believe firmly in stopping a situation as soon as possible, so I might have been more agressive in the situation, but think you handled it well. I would have told the coach, if I hear another word the game is over, thats terrible to be a part of. Good job. Your league director must handle this situation swiftly and enforce serious punishments, I think, to the coach and the players...maybe suspensions for the entire year.

I had quite a crazy day today. 13 year old tournament. Called 4 games. First two games were by myself. They were semifinal games of the tournament. Ok, so first game, A vs. B. So game starts off good. We have the plate confrence. We have to flip to see who is the home team, but no one has a coin. So I say, I'll flip my plate brush. Put my thumb under it, flip it up into the air. Not the best flip on my part. The brush never turns over even once. We decided to reflip, and the game started.

Coaches from A & B are both relentless about every single call. They even yell at me for calls that go their way. I call a batter from team B out on strikes. Manager of A yells to me "Thats not a strike, but we'll take it." Of course the pitch was a curve ball right down the middle, the catcher didn't even have to move his glove. So game goes on, A ends up blowing the game big time. They loose by 1 in the bottom of the 7th. So I give team B their game ball back, tell the manager good game, and I wish him good luck on his game in the finals. Go over to manager A. Give him the ball. Tell him good game and good luck in the third place game. While I said that I was reaching out to shake his hand. Then he says I'll shake your hand but I won't say good game, you were horrible, and you should go back to strike zone school. I just walk away. Little did he know that I was going to be calling the plate at his next game.

Next game C vs. D. Team C was very polite. The coaches and the players. Never once argued a call. Team D, their manager was on me about a few close plays at third. He would question my calls a lot, but not with the intensity that manager A had. Game ends, team C wins.

I walk back to the parking lot, and meet up with my partner, who had just gotten there. The last two games were two man. A few of the parents from team C tell me good game, and to not listen to manager D, because he always yells a lot in every game he coaces.

Next game the losers play for third place. D vs. A. Manager D comes up to me before the game, he had heard about what the parents said to me in the parking lot, I told him that I would not hold a grudge against him for arguing with me last game. He was fine the whole game.

Game is going along OK. Team D is at bat, R3 & R2. Ground ball to third. F2 steps foreward to about 6 inches off the plate up the third base line. F5 checks R3 and throws to first. BR is out. R3 is coming home on the play. Throw to the plate. R3 goes in standing up, but he had to tippy toe around the catcher. I go safe, obsturction ( I know that is not the prefered way to signal obstrucion, but that is how I did it.) All of a sudden, one of the coaches is up by me asking for an explanation, so I am explaining myself, I see my partner ejection someone out of the dugout. One of the coaches had said the call was bull$hit, I didn't hear it but my partner did.

Game ends. A loses by 11 or 12. I go to give the balls back to manager A, I toss him the ball, and say nice game, and stick out my hand to shake his. He refuses to shake my hand, he tells me about how bad a game I called, so I start to walk away, then he tells me about how bad a game my partner called, then he says that I know that both of us are terrible. I thought I had called a good game, I don't know where he was coming from. An assistant coach from both teams had come up to me durring the game and complimented me on my strike zone.

Next game B vs. C for the championship. I'm in the field, finally after 3 games at the plate. Third or fourth inning. Team B up to bat. R3, two out. I'm in C. Pickoff throw at third, R3 dives back, I bang him out. Of course manager B had a great view of the play from the first base dugout, so he asks me where the tag was. Inning and a half later. Team C up to bat. R1 & R3. I'm in B. Batter hits to outfield gap. R3 scores. I watch R1 touch second, and the BR touch first. Third base coach is waving R3 home, I watch him touch third running at full speed, then I swing my head back to see the cutoff man catch the ball in the outfield, just as the BR touches second. BR takes a step off second, and cutoff man fires to third. I'm thinking BR ain't going to third, why throw there? So I follow the ball, and I see F5 catch it. Just as F5 catches the ball (it was a head high throw), I see R1 diving back to third. He must have turned around after I saw him touch third. Another bang bang play. I call him safe. The play had caught me off guard, but I still managed to make the right call. Manager C runs out of dugout and goes up to plate umpire, he argues with him about my call, about 5 seconds later, he gets ejected. Game goes fine after that.

Well, I really don't know what the point of this post is. I have forgotten what I was replying to. Well it's been a long day. I better get to sleep soon.

First, I cannot imagine umpiring under the circumstances described in this thread. These situations would never occur in the games that I do because I would have so many ejections that there would not be enough players left to play. But let's move onto specifics of LDUB's tourney.

LDUB;

It says under your name that you have 250 posts on this board. Hopefully that means that you have read thousands of other people's posts. Somewhere in those thousands of posts you should have read that you never shake hands with anybody after the game. Drop the baseballs and get the h$ll out of there - fast!

What the f$$$ are you doing listening to anybody but your partner after a game? Why are you shaking hands with coaches? Why are you parked in a place where fans can come talk to you? Why are you even listening to them? Have you learned nothing from your readings here at this forum?

Furthermore, what in the h$ll do you expect a coach to say to you after he has lost? Don't you know that most coaches consider it the umpire's fault after a loss? If you need validation and adoration from coaches, you need to find a new line of work. Even when they compliment you, they are only setting you up for the next game. If you believe a word they say then you are a green rookie.

You created most of your own problems in this fiasco. Furthermore, you failed to deal with those problems that did come up.

Suggestion: Read more and post less. You are obviously too incompetent to contribute intelligently.

Peter

I don't think Pat meant that he or the PU gave a homerun signal. I think he was saying that the ball was signaled fair and that because it was a long fly, it ENDED UP BEING A HOMERUN when all was said and done.

PAT THE REF:

I agree there is no room for that language on the field, especially 15 yr olds but, I am not there to be their father either. The conversation was not between you and the players and so unless it was loud enough for the fans to hear, I would have put my "rabbits ears" away.

LDUB:

For what reason do you feel that you have to shake the coaches hand? This only creates an oppurtunity for him to make a comment. Walk off the field when the game is done.

If you don't think that your gonna like what a person has to say you, don't approach them to begin with. Then once you do, if they say the wrong thing you asked for it and you really have no right to eject them. Thats baiting the person. So just stay away.

This is not the place I would expect you to learn that.
 

LDUB,

Throw the balls to their dugouts or bench area, and get out of dodge. Very rarely do you even want to have words with a coach after a game. And if you know they were giving you crap or unhappy with your calls most of the game, say nothing. Silence cannot be quoted and no one can say you provoked a response.

And do not feel bad about what happened, we all make mistakes as we move thru the ranks. Despite what Peter thinks, I would not expect you to learn what those procedures are on this site. In my opinion, that is stuff you learn with your local associations or clinics. At least there you can learn the specific points and the specific procedures, then have people here just disagree with each other and no one figuring out what is right to wrong.

Peace

There isn't enough cheese to feed the rats you had.

You need to squelch the bad behavior with some ejections. Don't take this kind of crap when working alone.

I would've confronted the coach who said "that wasn't a strike but we'll take it." That guy needed to go, as did all of them.

I haven't worked alone in YEARS, but when I did, I didn't entertain the coaches with any arguing over calls. Not paying for 2 umpires removes their right, in my mind, to come out and "argue" anything. Come out and there's a good chance that you're getting tossed.

Am I the only one that finds this comment totally inappropriate?

Agreed.
 

I agree. I would tell the coaches in the pregame meeting, there is nothing for you to complain about. There is no way I can see everything as one umpire. That is why there are normally two and other levels have 3 in many cases. I usually say something to that affect right off the bat, then if I have to say something I might say, "remember what we talked about in the meeting." Then I do not have to say another word the rest of the game.

I have also not worked by myself in a few years and thank God have not had to worry about it. But I give these guys very little rope when that is the case.

And from my standpoint, I almost never had to do a game by myself when I started coming up. All the games I did in my first two or three years were all 2 man. The place I live now, all games at the non-varsity level are one man games. The place I started, that would only happen if someone just did not show up or there was a scheduling conflict. No wonder we are struggling for umpires around here.

Peace

No, but there are some things we take for granted on this forum.

I do, but not much you or I can do about it.
 

Yes, but this is what Peter does. He puffs out his chest and thinks that everyone that has not achieved anything to his satisifaction is not just less of an umpire, but less of a human being.

ANYONE has the right to post on this board or any for that matter. As long as the go along with the conduct rules that the moderators set forth. But folks like Peter feel that he and some of his sorry friends should post what they feel fits in their world. They quickly forget that all of us at one time did not know everything there was about umpiring. Sometimes we had to fall on our faces before we realized that fact. But then again, there is a reason we look at some of the old-timers and wonder why they still are around. Peter is just on of many of those examples.

Peace

I hate guys who stick around and watch the teams shake hands or tell the coaches "good game" Who cares, first of all, and second of all what good does it do? Its another opportunity to find trouble while they should be in the parking lot with their partner. I hate that stuff.

If I feel like coaches and players have exhibited exceptional sportsmanship and have been very courteous to me the whole game, I will tell them after the game that I appreciate it. If not, I get the heck out of there.

I understand that there's no need to stick around any longer than you have to, but if you've had a good game, good coaches, good players, etc., I think you should be able to tell them that you appreciate their good behavior and that they made things a lot easier on you.

Just my opinion. Which I'm sure will be shot down quickly.

On our fields, we have to exit through a dugout (or hop a fence - which I did once when both teams were out of control). I try to avoid any comment or wait until after they have vacated, but it's not always possible. I say as little as possible to the coaches after the game, whether they did well or not, and whether they were courteous or not. I will reply if spoken to, and be as courteous as I can, but mostly I ignore as much as possible - both negative and positive.

Don't be there
 

We create the situations we find ourselves in.

The vast majority of my games go very smoothly and I rarely have a coach that I don't want to be within earshot of at the end of the game. Create that atmosphere for yourself and your participants, and then it's no big deal. But in general, as others here have said "Get gone, man." Do not make any opportunity for a battle or to be shown-up by the lack of a handshake... just don't be there. Whatever conflict that may have ocurred during your game is over and done... don't exacerbate the situation by trying to force a handshake or some small talk pleasantries. Some of us find ourselves in these less than favorable positions... but by being there, you have created that situation too.

Several are the times I have said "I will explain it to you later, or after the game." NEVER, NEVER, NEVER have I yet, had that after the game conversation be one in which I have come out on top. IT IS A NO WIN SITUATION - so why be there or be involved.

Is there an echo here? GET GONE!
;)

<i> Originally posted by PAT THE REF

For those of you that dont know me my name is Patrick & I am a head umpire of a local recreational league. </i>

You need not say no more when you say REC league which from my experience and you found at first hand are the most disorganized and misbehaved leagues to umpire in.

Suggestions:

You need to have a PRE-SUMMER meeting with the parties involved and <b> LAY DOWN THE LAW </b> If they do not get it, here's another suggestion that sometimes works.

Since you are the UIC, I'm sure you have a couple of "Old Smitty's" you can send to umpire these type games. This "type" umpire couldn't care less what people think or say. Give me my paycheck and I go home. Also, how many do I have to eject to have NO game, go home early with a nice paycheck.

If this league wants to behave that way, then <i> give it back to them </i> Save your "best" crew(s) for your Bread and Butter leagues that give you less headaches.

Now to the poster who also had a fiasco.

Here's some Game management techniques that could aid you.

First and Foremeost make <b> CERTAIN </b> you get PAID up front, especially dealing with the type of league your thread was about.

When doing a game SOLO. Take <b> NOTHING </b> from no one and I mean <b> NOTHING </b>. As long as you hustle, that's all that is needed. One peep from either bench and you get your point across in a hurry. You don't need adjeda. If they do not get the message it's see ya have a nice day.

As others mentioned do not look for acolades from ANYBODY. If you want an honest evaluation or critique of your performance ask your partner or another Official who observed the game. DO NOT hang around and shake hands. Drop the base-balls, Greet your partner and GO HOME.

Also, do not park too close to where everyone else parks, especially if you have a Double DIP or more which you had. So you have to walk a few extra steps to get too the field, it's well worth it.

Lastly, discuss this league with your association. Are other umpires having difficulty with this league? If your association as a whole is constantly having trouble with this league, Have a MANDATORY meeting with the league officers or Simply DROP them from your schedule as it is not worth it.

Pete Booth

Patrick,

You mention Team A was in the lead and Team B was at bat. Top of the fifth. Later in your post, you state that Team A was at bat (Visitors). Just wondering....who was home team?

The shortstop and pitcher ejected themself and it was wise to remove them from the playing area also.

On the long ball hit up the first base line, hopefully your PU didn't call it fair, the PU should have signaled it fair and if it was close, maybe pumped it twice and then given the home run signal if the ball cleared the fence in the air.

With the bases juiced you should have been in the C position and a fair/foul or home run call would not have been yours to make.

Coach tossed bats on the field, yep....he's history.

Michael

LDUB,

"Coaches from A & B are both relentless about every single call. They even yell at me for calls that go their way. I call a batter from team B out on strikes. Manager of A yells to me "Thats not a strike, but we'll take it."

This is a situation you need to control early. My method is very direct. I approach the dugout and say: Coach, that's enough! Arguing judgment calls is a violation of the rules, if you continue violating this rule I will take further action. If at anytime for the rest of the game he argues a judgment call, he ejects himself.

When the games is over and you are the PU, remove the balls from your ball bag and set them on the plate, meet you partner at the gate and leave the area.

These people are not your friends, the coaches and players DO NOT care what your thoughts are regarding whether the game was good or not. Fifty percent of the people at the field are already mad at you.

Also in the future you may want to park away from where the fans and players park. It maybe a further walk, but you are more likely to avoid any hassles as people return to their cars.

Michael

I don't know where you are from, but around here, there is one parking lot at a field. So I park there, I parked in the back to try to be as out of view as possible. The parents of the players also park there. And if I am standing there talking to my partner for the next game, and one of the parents walks by and says good game to me, what should I do. Just look at the ground and ignore them?

Yep I think it is time for me to quit. The only reason I umpire baseball games is to hear the coach say good game to me afterwards.

Here's a suggestion. How about you crawl back into that cave you have been living in for your whole life. I'm sorry, I shook someone's hand. I guss that make me not qualified to ever post agian.

Why so defensive? Do you want advice or do you only want sympathy?

Letting the coaches be relentless is YOUR fault. How many did you eject? You are giving them the massage that bad behavior will be tolerated. Run one or two and the problems go away. Do it for a while and the coaches will know not to f--k with you when you are umpiring.

Only shake hands that are offered to you. Having someone refuse to shake your hand is a classless move on his part, but you should expect that from some of the rats out there.

I do want advice. But I do not like having my personal character attacked because of shook hands with someone.

And I never did that -- I only suggested that you (1) take care of business during the game and (2) never offer your hand first. I learned both of these the hard way, as does everyone that sticks with officiating long enough.

--Rich

TWO THINGS:

Working Alone--Something I was taught has always helped me when I did one-man. At the plate meeting, after covering everything, finish with...."Guys, obviously I'm flying solo here, I'll be hustling for you out there, but that means one man calls." And that seemed to always help those times, when a coach would think about coming out on plays (steal at 2nd, lefty pitcher swinging his leg back past the rubber, etc) when you either have to make em long distance, or due to where everyone is, has a different view than you. And if they did come out, I told em what I had from WHERE I was, and that seemed to trigger what I said in the plate meeting in their minds, and their argument quickly lost steam.

His High Holiness--Pay attention to others on this post who tried to help the guy, saying the same thing you did, but in a little more civil tone.
An old saying rings true here......"You dont need to blow someone else's candle out, to make yours shine brighter."

LDUB;

I was trying to get across that I find it inconceivable that someone who has read thousands of posts on this board does not know that an umpire should not fraternize with coaches after a game. (or before the game or during the game but especially after the game.)

This is basic umpiring 101. Not knowing this is like not knowing whether the hands are part of the bat. At 252 posts, you post almost once a day since you joined officiating.com. Hopefully, you read 15 or 20 posts for everyone you write. Only a moron like the umpire from Illinois routinely writes posts without reading or thinking, and you don't appear to be a moron.

In all those thousands of posts that you have seen, have you not read about getting the h$ll off the field after a game in as quick a manner as possible? I think that there are about 10 such posts telling you exactly that in this thread alone.

Here is some specific advice (without judgment) that can help you. In a field with only one small parking lot, I jump in my car after a game with my gear still on and drive somewhere else about a quarter of a mile away to change. I don't want to give anyone the opportunity to start something. I have started and ended all of the s$$$ that I wanted to on the field and I don't need any extracurricular problems.

I did not attack your personal character. I save character assassinations for the likes of the moron from Illinois, the head case from Rhode Island, and the man who diddles with sheep from down under.

Peter

I normally spend my time on the basketball forum but things have gone to ****e there recently, arguing about profanity, how to clean the kooties out of your whistle, license plate covers and with the occasional Bob Knight wannabe idiot girl's middle school coach - not clear enough here, it aint the girls who are the idiots.

Anyway...Pat you have got to take control of your games. As far as I'm concerned HHH has it right: dump them early & often. And you should have known better by now.

If your goal is to share a brotherly smile & hand shake after the game with a coach then do yourself a favor and get out now. You're only bending over with a big sign on your @ss that says "Kick me".

And don't take this as an insult.

Take it as brotherly advice.

Whatch out Dan... the wanna be bobby knight girls basketball coach actually posted here :-D about a chest protector. Whats he need that for?

With all the thousands of post that I have read, I must have missed the ones about talking with coaches. But I got it down now. Today, I flipped the ball to the dugout and walked away. I had to exit through a dugout, and I said nothing to no one as I left.

I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about His High Holiness. Sorry about the mix up.

No, you have to weed out the bullsh*t on this site. There are few crackerjacks at slinging it on here.

Don't shake hands with coaches after games. If the practice in this league is to leave baseballs at the field, then I leave them near home plate, on the ground, where I dumped them from my bag when I vacated the premises. Somebody will pick them up. I make best effort to just vanish after a game, even if it is one I don't expect to hear any bull from either side. Poof, I'm gone.

[Edited by DG on Jun 7th, 2004 at 11:08 PM]

Wow
 

Well, I AM new to this board, and have not officiated in several years.

I think you guys are being way to harsh on LDUB.

As a coach, I make a point of shaking the Umpire's hand before he leaves no matter how inept he or she was that day. It's like work...when the game is over, we're all adults. If it was a good game in my opinion, then I say so. If not, I just say thanks...and I mean it.

I also think it is very important for the kids, especially the little ones, to see coaches and umpires reconcile (well, that kind of implies arguing, which shouldn't happen either) after the game to show good sportsmanship.

After reading some of your posts...if officiating is so thankless and even hostile for you that you have to throw balls on the ground and run to your car, then you need to find a new league or get some support from the league administrators. You shouldn't have to do that. Just my 2 cents...I'm sure I will now be flamed.

Re: Wow
 

No flames from me, you are entitled to your opinion. It entirely depends on the league, and the game. I work one league where the coaches are very reasonable adults and there is very little conflict during or after games. I see no reason not to speak to these guys after or during games, especially if spoken to. I have also worked games that, when it is over, it is best to toss any remaining baseballs on the ground towards the home dugout, and vanish. I never run to the car.

Interesting situation.

I'm a stickler for sportsmanship. I love passing out minor penalties in for Unsportsmanlike Conduct and Misconducts for the like in hockey games. It sends really big messages to the players that I'm the MF in charge of judging the game. I take the field the same way, too.

I'd have not only called the kid who ran safe, I'd have called him safe on principle and then tossed the pitcher for making a travesty of the game. Plain and simple. I never played baseball, but there's a certain amount of respect that one has to have for the game and for the other participants. The pitcher had an obligation to the play the game the right way and throw the ball to the first baseman. I will not tolerate "Superman" attitudes like that on my field.

Of course, that does mean that I'd have to turn around immediately and toss the coach, but who cares. It's obvious he's a worthless coach or he'd instill a sense of respect for the game in his players.

-Craig

Well, Im glad I don't officiate my only two sports (Hockey & Baseball)with your "Superman" Officiating Attitude. If you don't like the way people play the game do all of us a favor and don't officiate the sport.

Mabey you should read the other thread written about officials with an attitude, because your certainly a candidate for that award.

It is one thing to have a big EGO, know the rules and know when to apply them during the contest. It is totally another thing to go on the field or ice with this "Holier-Than-Thou, Everybody-Come-Watch-Me-Officiate attitude.

"It's obvious he's a worthless coach or he'd instill a sense of respect for the game in his players."

You, have a personal problem.

I agree. Those two are out of line. Tsk,tsk,tsk.

As an umpire, Kaliix, how would you personally handle a coach of, say, an Under 12 baseball team that constantly "worked" the umpiring crew? By "worked", I mean constantly questioned calls with the view of getting other calls made in his favor. Exactly how much would you personally let that coach get away with, and what would you do about it?

I'm also wondering how the other umpires on this board view coaches deliberately "working" them- especially in the younger age groups, and what they'd do about it also.

No flames from me!
 

MarionTiger;

Carl has labeled me a curmudgeon. (He also gave me my moniker four years ago this month and I have used it with honor ever since.) Anyway, I regularly get on umpires about their mistakes. It's part of who I am (which is not a nice guy.) I am the same way on the field. Coaches generally are cool towards me. The upside of all this is that my games go very smoothly. I am known as a person to leave alone. If one wants his games to go smoothly, it is a good reputation to have.

Anyway, in my 5 or so years on various boards, I don't believe that I have ever flamed a coach. I save that for the baseball field. (OK, head case from Rhode Island, do a search of the archives and prove me wrong.)

As a matter of fact, I have written umpire articles directed at coaches for the paid part of this site. One of the long series that I wrote last year was a tutorial for coaches on how to successfully manipulate umpires. I did not win any umpires friends for that series. A long standing thesis of mine (which goes back to an article that I wrote in 1999 for ABUA) is that "coaches are smarter than umpires." That thesis has not won me any umpire friends either. I believe that the article is still available for viewing on the ABUA site.

Another long standing question in my mind is how umpires can be so sensitive on the anonymous Internet. Here they are day after day taking abuse up close and personal on a baseball field, and they come to the Internet and come unglued at an insult.

What gives with that? I believe in combat Internet umpiring in order to toughen up the greenhorns for the real combat of 9 inning umpiring on real baseball fields.

Your attitude towards umpires is so unusual that we umpires cannot afford to reciprocate. We are like policemen in that regard. We cannot afford to treat coaches as human beings because we never know which one will pull a "gun" on us.

However, in my writings, I am very charitable towards coaches. It is because coaches often give umpires better advice than they get from other umpires. In response to the problems outlined in this thread you wrote: "...then you need to find a new league or get some support from the league administrators."

I have often written that only league administrators can effect real reform in the way coaches behave. I have often urged umpires to quit umpiring in places known for bad behavior, for their own sake and the sake of their careers. Umpires are normally too stupid to take that advice. It's nice to hear the same advice from a coach.

Peter

Under 12 baseball games usually have under experienced officials and under experienced coaches, and therein lies the problem. To some extent this happens in older games to. Depending upon the official , his experience, confidence and phase of the moon that day, you can get a plethra of opinions here.

Generally speaking, I put and end to it very early. MOST coaches find out their limits very early with me , when I'm tested. But if there is no need to insert myself, then you won't even know I was there. I have seen officials with years of experienced get totally crapped upon and others that toss people at the drop of a dime. I don't know if there is a receipt that can be used against this. All though many will tell you differently.

As an umpire, I've come to expect some comments from coaches. I'll usually get a "where was that blue?" or my personal favorite "Jones (catchers name), where was that?" If the catchers smart he'll say outside/low/etc.

Personally, I don't worry about the occasional comment. By occasional, I mean, once every two or three innings. I've even let it go twice in a inning, as long as it stops there. That is in regards to the occasional, "where was that blue?"

Now if the it gets anymore frequent than that, if I can wait until the half inning, coach and I have a friendly little chat, in which I nicely make it clear that the comments should stop.

If it can't wait till the half inning, as the comments continue, I call time and tell the coach that arguing balls and strikes is against the rules and that if the comments continue, he's going to have an early night. I say it firmly and with conviction, but respectfully as possible.

If the comments are personal, like "you suck blue!" or expletive laced, "That was shi%*y call!" then they are gone.

I have tried to warn first and so far it has worked. I have the advantage of having a command presence, an imposing physical stature and a friendly but take no crap attitude that has gone a long way towards keeping comments to a minimum.

umpiring philosophy - YUCK!
 

This thread has gone down the road of how to handle coaches and peoples feelings getting hurt...so because I love a good arguement, I will jump in with both feet...

Peter, internet umpiring (as opposed to actual umpiring which on occasion bore some remarkable resemblances to Iraq...) is not, has never, and will never even remotely similiar to combat. But you bring up a very GOOD point for all umpires to keep in mind. Our roles are similiar to police officers in that we never know when one of the coaches will turn on us and it is our responsibility to maintain order.

I have a good relationship with some of the coaches in the area. Call it mutual respect. But bottom line, every coach is loyal to HIS team first. We, as umpires, are not part of that team. We have our own team, our partner. When the $#!+ hits the fan, coach doesn't care about being buddy, buddy, coach cares about getting in your @$$. Your only back-up is your partner.

I don't shake hands with coaches, unless offered. I don't chit-chat with coaches. I have been approached in the parking lot with questions and I keep walking. But I always maintain my professionalism. I don't get or need to feel chummy with the coaches. That's why I am married...

Re: Wow
 

I don't throw balls on the ground, but I don't stick around waiting for a handshake and a "good game, blue." I don't stick around and supervise the "line em up handshake" because that's not my job. If a fight breaks out on the field, that is also not my concern once I'm off the field -- there ARE adults present to supervise the kids before and after the game -- why would I want to put myself in that situation?

I usually hand the balls to the first home player I see and then walk with purpose off the field towards my car.

You coach little kids and you and your fellow coaches may be AOK when it comes to sportsmanship and telling the umpire you appreciate the job he did. But as a general rule, no good can come out of the umpire sticking around. At the higher levels, especially if there have been some controversial calls during the game, you're just asking for a cheap shot from a coach, player, spectator, etc.

Get in. Get done. Get out. Get your pats on the back at home.

--Rich

Re: Re: Wow
 

Agreed. There's a difference between a COACH making a point of shaking the umpire's hand and saying, "Thanks." (that's good sportsmanship) and the UMPIRE making a point of shaking the coaches' hands (that's asking for trouble).

For the umpire, if you happen to see / be met by the coach, and he offers his hand, shake it.

There's (usually) no need to sprint off the field -- leave the balls at home plate, roll them toward the appropriate dugout, give them to the first person you see. Then stride off the filed -- with purpose, but not "in a hurry."

Wow! You must have seen me officiate! (End sarcasm here.)

You describe me in a manner that is so inconsistent with my personality that you must be on the other side of the world. Read the whole thing and then interject a bit of worldly realism. Any umpire or hockey ref who goes out to officiate and gets a big head and starts tossing guys left and right for unsportsmanlike behavior is not going to last long. It's rare that I have to do anything like that, but I'm not averse to it. Hell, I've been known to chew out my fellow teammates for their stupid actions on the ice in regards to unsportsmanlike behavior.

I became an official because I enjoy the games that I work. I like to see them played fairly and with respect for ALL participants. Once again: I will not tolerate unsportsmanlike behavior. Pardon me if I make it clear that I will take action against those children (and adults) who, once very 100 games, warrant that they return to the dressing room and take the rest of the night (or day) off.

I didn't come here to get told about the splinter in my eye by some guy who just about took my head off with his log. Now go home and keep your personal comments to yourself.

-Craig

Peter's concluding comment in his initial post was blunt to be sure, perhaps even rude. But true nonetheless. I was incompetent early in my career, too. As Steve Mattingly says, "Good judgment comes from bad judgment."

LDUB: Learn from your mistakes and move forward. The hardest aspect of umpiring to learn is game managment. Because it can't be taught in a book, game management must be learned by trial-and-error experience. Try to keep the rats in the game; but when it's time for them to go, heave them!

Some of you have mentioned that you will shake if offered and that you leave with deliberance but not in a hurry. I can understand that if you think there may be some confrontation, and especially with adults or older kids. I see your point. It would seem that would certainly take some of the fun out of it. I guess it often depends on the situation as well.

A lot of you would laugh at our relationship. I often talk to the officials of my age group as well as others between games. It's usually about rules or situations. I think it's just because we enjoy the game and discussing it. It sounds like I'm more of the exception than I thought.

I officiated for a handful of years because I liked the money and enjoyed being part of the game. Maybe I can relate better because I have "been there". I don't know how/why some of you do it, but I'm glad you do.

Unsure
 

This is feeling like the end of a game and Ishouldgetthehelloutofhere.

I do like Craig's sentiment. Not sure I would have stated it so strongly but ABSOLUTELY, YES. The coach instills his attitude into his players. And if the coach is a butthead (I'm being nice), the majority of his players (because most of them don't have strong enough parents to instill proper values) will also be buttheads, and so will their weak willed parents in the stands, and possibly the similarly feeble minded other fans. IT STARTS WITH THE weak family and is pushed to higher levels at the front of the game BY THE COACH. Craig is right in my mind; the coach is responsible.

A-holes are not born; they are taught that being disrepectful is okay. It's a way of showing how strong you are by disrespecting others. It is complete total crap but seems to be an integral part of sports and of our flailing, Godless society.

Tolerance my A double S. We need some pillars of respect. BE ONE.

As my signature line says: Be a Knute and practice a little sportsmanship.