In a Babe Ruth game I saw this play last night that i was watching but not working. with less than two outs R1 on first base is forced to go to second by batter/runner. R1 overslides second base purposely breaking up the double play and taking the fielder out. the base umpire did not see this because the bag had already been tagged and he was moving into position to view a throw to first for the double play. he realizes the ball was not thrown and the two players are laying on the ground. if he did not see the play at second can the plate guy make a call on it? or does the base guy have to appeal his call at second for a double play interference on the runner to the plate guy since he could not see the interference?

I can see already that a lot of what happened, was do to inexperieced officials.

First mistake. No baseball, no play. Had the BU followed the ball, which in this case meant watching the fielder release the ball to first, which did not happen, he would have seen the collision and been able to rule on the interference at second.

Second, todays mechanics are to have the PU come out from behind the plate, I repeat, for those that never move, COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE PLATE. Watch the action at second base and then rule accordingly if any interference takes place. It is the responsibilty of BOTH officials to make this happen. I worked with a partner that came alomost to the mound and assisted verbally by saying that "it was clear at second." Teamwork.

This is how it should happen.

<i> Originally posted by ecurebel

In a Babe Ruth game I saw this play last night that i was watching but not working. with less than two outs R1 on first base is forced to go to second by batter/runner. R1 overslides second base purposely breaking up the double play and taking the fielder out. the base umpire did not see this because the bag had already been tagged and he was moving into position to view a throw to first for the double play. he realizes the ball was not thrown and the two players are laying on the ground. if he did not see the play at second can the plate guy make a call on it? or does the base guy have to appeal his call at second for a double play interference on the runner to the plate guy since he could not see the interference? </i>

There's a couple of things going on here before I get to the mechanics.

I think Babe Ruth plays by OBR rules. If that's the case then R1 would have to do something Willfully and deliberately with Obvious intent to break up DP. Also in OBR as long as the bag is within reach by the players hand, the slides Ok.

Therefore, in an OBR game we only have one out.

In FED, they have what is called a Force Play Play slide rule and also define what types of slides are legal vs. illegal. over-sliding a base and making contact with a fielder is an illegal slide in FED.

Now to the mechanic:

In a 2 Person System it is the plate person's responsibility to watch for the interference at second base, because the BU will turn to make the call at first base as soon as F4/F6 releases the ball.

Pete Booth

see i am only a second year official and i know this. the umpire in question is a decent umpire, just forgot the basic mechanic of following the ball on the play. the plate guy didn't move out from behind the plate and didn't come up and say anything about the play.

i know to follow the play and watch for something like that because that happened to me in a high school game in which i called the out and then the interference because the player intentionally took out the second baseman.

Actually, it is the Plate umpire's job to make that Interference call !

With only a runner on 1st, his job is to watch the continuing play at 2nd base for just such an occurance.

The Base umpire's job is to watch the ball and call the plays at 2nd and then 1st.

Remember, two sets of eyes does not mean 4 eyes watching the same thing. We each have a specific job to do for each situation.

Your absolutely right Nick however,as stated above,"he realizes the ball was not thrown and the two players are laying on the ground." The ball never left second base.

Sounds like a good slide to me.

No interference.

R1 out. BR safe.

You are kidding, right? A runner overslides 2B intentionally to contact a fielder on the other side of the base to break up a DP and this is not interference?

Can he reach the base with a hand or foot? This is NOT a FED or NCAA game, after all.

the point of the post is that r1 DELIBERATELY took out the fielder, and the play was not seen by the base umpire.. yet it should have been called by the plate guy

It's hard to say without seeing it.

You guys just sound like you are going to call interference because he was breaking up the double play with a hard slide.

If it's a clean, hard slide that takes the SS/2B out, then there is no interference.

"Deliberately" taking out the fielder is allowed under some circumstances in all rules codes. So, just because the runner deliberately did this doesn't tell us anything.

If the question is "whose call is it?", then it should be BU's call becasue the ball wasn't thrown. But, if BU truned, PU should also be watching and can make any needed call.

IF the question is, "Was this interference?" then you need to give more information -- rules code (I assume OBR, since you said Babe Ruth), and where the contact was made, and any other actions by the runner.

If sliding off the bag, such that it can't be reached by hand or foot, to break up a double play is an illegal slide, then surely sliding past the bag, so that it can't be reached by hand or foot is also. Rule reference, 9.01(c)

Remember that deliberatly doing something doesn't change the way the call is made. There are alot of things that are done deliberatly in life to take advantage of the rules. Such as deliberatly have a baby in December to collect a whole years worth of tax credits for a child that you've really only cared for for less than a month (sounds kinda sadistic, but my wife and I had our son in December, not deliberatly, but I sure as heck deliberatly claimed him and the nice refund check that came with it to start his college fund). I know a couple though that deliberatly had their baby in December for exactly that reason. All in all, sounds like they've cheated the system but by following the rules its all good.

All this said, the plate umpire should have a good idea of what has happened, and assist the base ump in ruling accordingly on the play at second based on the governing rules

This is complete crap. You cannot rely on 9.01(c) here. Could he reach the bag with a hand or foot? If yes, then it's not interference unless there is a FPSR in place and there's a violation of that.

If not, the runner can "deliberately" break up a double play. What do you think that slide is for, anyway? If the runner slides past the base such that he can't reach it with a hand or foot, then call the interference. If not, don't insert yourself in the game because you want to be the protector of the players. This ain't chess.

--Rich