8-3-1c

[scyguy]

This post is concerning FED rules

I am not sure I fully understand this rule, it is as follows:
Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when:
c: he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e).

How does this rule differ from 8-1-1e? For example, if you have a runner at third stealing home, runner at second not attempting to steal, catcher comes out of the box after time of pitch, catches ball before it has the opportunity to cross the plate, then tags runner. We have catcher obstruction, but do we award the batter first? The catcher made NO contact with the batter. Would this situation fall under the above rule and make it different from 8-1-1e? If so, then we would have to award the runner at second third, right?

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by scyguy
This post is concerning FED rules

I am not sure I fully understand this rule, it is as follows:
Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when:
c: he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e).

How does this rule differ from 8-1-1e? For example, if you have a runner at third stealing home, runner at second not attempting to steal, catcher comes out of the box after time of pitch, catches ball before it has the opportunity to cross the plate, then tags runner. We have catcher obstruction, but do we award the batter first? The catcher made NO contact with the batter. Would this situation fall under the above rule and make it different from 8-1-1e? If so, then we would have to award the runner at second third, right?

Sorry, but on page 47 of my 2004 FED rule book, there is no 8-1-2c... it ends at b and on page 48, we start with 8-2-1. Now if you reference 8-1-2a, that will refer you back to 8-1-14e (or c or d depending on the case).
You do not need contact with the batter if the catcher "steals" the pitch from the batter. The batter has a right to hit the pitch.

[scyguy]

I didn't say there was an 8-1-2c, I am taking about 8-3-1c. The only reference to 8-1-2 is in the beginning of 8-3-1. Bottom line, what is the difference between 8-1-1e and 8-3-1c? I read in case book 8.3.1 situation A, with bases loaded, runner from third steals home, but in this situation the ball hits runner in the strike zone. Batter is given a strike, but ball is dead and all runners advance one base, and run scores.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by scyguy
This post is concerning FED rules

I am not sure I fully understand this rule, it is as follows:
Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when:
c: he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e).

How does this rule differ from 8-1-1e? For example, if you have a runner at third stealing home, runner at second not attempting to steal, catcher comes out of the box after time of pitch, catches ball before it has the opportunity to cross the plate, then tags runner. We have catcher obstruction, but do we award the batter first? The catcher made NO contact with the batter. Would this situation fall under the above rule and make it different from 8-1-1e? If so, then we would have to award the runner at second third, right?

Rule 8.1.1.e deals with the Batter-Runner, while 8.3.1 deals with the Runner.

The batter is awarded first in accordance with 8.1.1.e. The catcher is not allowed to catch the pitch until it has passed home plate. Not sure where rule on this is however case 8.1.1 Sit F: (2003) Case book makes reference to this.

The batter-runner is goverened by 8.1.1.e and the runners are goverened by rule 8.3.1.c. The runner on second can ONLY advance if he is stealing or is forced to vacate because a follwing runner is forced to advance. Otherwise he stays at 2nd.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by scyguy
I didn't say there was an 8-1-2c, I am taking about 8-3-1c. The only reference to 8-1-2 is in the beginning of 8-3-1. Bottom line, what is the difference between 8-1-1e and 8-3-1c? I read in case book 8.3.1 situation A, with bases loaded, runner from third steals home, but in this situation the ball hits runner in the strike zone. Batter is given a strike, but ball is dead and all runners advance one base, and run scores.

Here is your original post:
This post is concerning FED rules

I am not sure I fully understand this rule, it is as follows:
Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when:
c: he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e).

How does this rule differ from 8-1-1e? For example, if you have a runner at third stealing home, runner at second not attempting to steal, catcher comes out of the box after time of pitch, catches ball before it has the opportunity to cross the plate, then tags runner. We have catcher obstruction, but do we award the batter first? The catcher made NO contact with the batter. Would this situation fall under the above rule and make it different from 8-1-1e? If so, then we would have to award the runner at second third, right?


I am not a mind reader, you never mentioned 8-3-1c in the original post. I do not assume where a question is going; I just deal with what you type. Unless you are changing in mid stream as many of the posters do! Sorry, but this crap just pi**es me off!

[scyguy]

catcher obstruction can occur without catcher making contact with hitter, ie catching ball before it reaches plate. Now, since it is catcher obstruction, does the offensive coach have the option of accepting the result of the play or the obstruction?

[scyguy]

mario, read the TOPIC heading. When the topic is 8-3-1c, what do you think I am talking about.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by scyguy
mario, read the TOPIC heading. When the topic is 8-3-1c, what do you think I am talking about.

My utmost apologies. The topic disappears at times on the screen at work (garbage equipment). I plugged in the laptop to the network and there it was 8-3-1c. That explains my confusion with your original post.

[jicecone]

"Now, since it is catcher obstruction, does the offensive coach have the option of accepting the result of the play or the obstruction?"

Don't take this the wrong way, but how could you miss the second sentence of 8.1.1.e. Yes the coach has an option, UNLESS, the batter runner and all other runners advance at least one base, then obstruction is ignored.

[scyguy]

thats ok Mario, thanks. J-cone, I read that, I guess I was looking for verification.

[DG]

Originally posted by scyguy
This post is concerning FED rules

I am not sure I fully understand this rule, it is as follows:
Each runner other than the batter-runner (who is governed by 8-1-2) is awarded one base when:
c: he is attempting to steal or he is forced from the base he occupies by a batter-runner or runner who must advance because the catcher or any fielder obstructs the batter, such as stepping on or across home or pushing the batter to reach the pitch or touching the bat (8-1-1e).

How does this rule differ from 8-1-1e? For example, if you have a runner at third stealing home, runner at second not attempting to steal, catcher comes out of the box after time of pitch, catches ball before it has the opportunity to cross the plate, then tags runner. We have catcher obstruction, but do we award the batter first? The catcher made NO contact with the batter. Would this situation fall under the above rule and make it different from 8-1-1e? If so, then we would have to award the runner at second third, right?

Runners attempting to steal at time of catcher's inteference get the base they were stealing to. Batter gets 1B, always. Catcher inteference includes stepping in front of the batter so he has no chance to hit the ball. So, in your situation runner from 3B scores, batter is awarded 1B, and runner on 2B stays at 2B, because he was not stealing. If a runner had been on 1B also then he would be forced to 2B and runner on 2B forced to 3B, due to batter award to 1B.

Forget all them numbers, a runner stealing at time of catcher interference gets the base he was stealing to, and batter gets 1B. Anybody forced to advance will do so.