Youth baseball - intentional walks fair?

[polyck]

Anyone have an opinion on intentional walks used during youth baseball games? is it fair to the batter or pitcher? how is it perceived?

This child is only 11 years old, the level of his skill is exceptional both offensively and defensively.

Thanks

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by polyck
Anyone have an opinion on intentional walks used during youth baseball games? is it fair to the batter or pitcher? how is it perceived?

This child is only 11 years old, the level of his skill is exceptional both offensively and defensively.

Thanks

I have mixed feelings about this matter. Intentional walks are part of the game, but, youth baseball is meant to be for the kids to have fun and learn the game with the exception of tournament play. Sometimes the coaches take things a lil too far in making decisions like that at this level of ball. Then again, if you ask the youth playing the game they all want to win. Intentionally walking a player is what it takes sometime during a particular time in the game to satisfy your teams expectations of you as a coach. If 1st base is empty an intentional walk may be beneficial to accomplishing the goals of your team. I have seen, unfortunately, coaches intentionally walk a particular player 4 times in one game with and without runners on because he didn't want him to hit a home run on his son who was pitching.

You did ask for an opinion, so here is mine. There is a time and a place for everything.

[ozzy6900]

Intentional walks are part of the game. Managers use intentional walks to produce a force play which if it works can get the team out of an inning.

The following is not directed to anyone, just a general statement.
A word to the wise - it's time to stop this "is it fair to the kids" crap! We need to teach the game as it is. As an upper level official, I see the game deteriorating more and more to make it "fair" for all. This is baseball, the game is designed for failure - you have to beat the game before you can beat your opponent.

[warriordad]

Intentional walks are part of the game at all levels. Unfortunately, the rules in the lower levels are not the same as those in the majors. I have seen games where a batter never gets to see a pitch. Walked 4 times straight. How is that a learning experience for the players on either team? The coach is obviously more interested in his ego than in developing baseball players.

Here is what I would like to see. First of all, throw the ball. The batter should have the right to the pitch. Just because the ump has other things to do and wants to speed up the game isn't an excuse for depriving a player of his opportunity at bat. Alot can happen in four pitches at the ll year old level. A wild pitch may advance the runners. The catcher may make a poor throw back to the pitcher. That's the way the game is. Directing the run to first with no pitches thrown is a huge advantage for the defense. That's not the way it is played in the pros.

Another option that is used in some leagues (and has even been considered in the pros) is to include a penalty for walking a batter more than once. The first intentional walk results in the batter getting first base. The second intentional walk of the same batter results in the batter being awarded second base. Walk him a third time (intentionally) and he gets third. I would prefer to see a limit of one intentional walk per batter in a game. This would encourage coaches to coach, pitchers to pitch, fielders to field and batters to bat.

Most youth baseball leagues claim to encourage sportsmanship and the development of baseball skills. Preventing an eleven year-old kid from getting an opportunity to bat doesn't support either.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by ozzy6900

The following is not directed to anyone, just a general statement.
A word to the wise - it's time to stop this "is it fair to the kids" crap! We need to teach the game as it is. As an upper level official, I see the game deteriorating more and more to make it "fair" for all. This is baseball, the game is designed for failure - you have to beat the game before you can beat your opponent.

The reason the game is deteroirating is because of these idiot coaches who are trying to win every game at the LL level. How can a kid beat the game when he never gets to see a pitch? How can a kid beat the game when he is sitting on the bench all year because he hasn't blossomed as quickly as the other players. The game would be in great shape and there would be no need for any of these rules if the coaches at this level would TEACH THE GAME, and teach it to EVERYONE, rather than try to be the next Joe Torre.

I coach a high school team and every year, without fail, I have to teach all the freshman everything they should have already learned from their previous coaches, but didn't because they were more concerned about winning than teaching.

[greymule]

I once saw a youth game that placed a limit on the number of batters in the inning. Can't remember the exact number; it might have been 8. The last batter could not walk—he had to hit the ball or strike out. However, the league rule specified that if the last batter was hit by a pitch, he went to 1B and the next batter then became the last batter.

(This league also had "must slide" rules and other idiocies.)

In the final inning, the trailing team rallied and sent their best hitter up as the last batter with runners on 2B and 3B. The coach went to the mound to confer with the pitcher. The next pitch hit the batter.

Can't prove anything, but . . .

People were not happy.

[TriggerMN]

Ask yourself this: Is it unfair to intentionally walk Barry Bonds all the time? He is just as beyond everyone else in his peer group as your 11 year old probably is...

[polyck]

Hey it was great to hear everyone's thoughts on this particular issue.

The player is not my son, he is an 11 year old kid who just loves to play the game. He works hard at it without being a show off, his parents have done a great job in keeping him grounded.

Yet over the years I have seen a lot of kids play baseball and I personally had not witnessed this situation at his age group. There were two outs, a man on 2nd and 3rd and he came up to bat. He could have easily brought both guys home.

This was a rare situation and from what I understand hadn't happened in years. I suppose it could be viewed as the opposing coach not having enough confidence and respect for his pitcher or knowing if he let the kid bat he was going to lose the game.

But it's just a game - no one gets paid. Has the level of competition gotten so out of control that coaches looking at the big picture?

What happened to kids playing a game of ball, teaching them to play fair and working as a team?

[DG]

In 12 years of coaching youth baseball, I only intentionally walked a player once (age 12), after he had already hit 2 home runs in the game. And afterwards, I wished I had not.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by warriordad
Here is what I would like to see. First of all, throw the ball. The batter should have the right to the pitch. Just because the ump has other things to do and wants to speed up the game isn't an excuse for depriving a player of his opportunity at bat.

Wow, thank you for that wholly gratuitous slam at umpires, right out of the blue.

Maybe it's just my "umpire bias," but I really don't think in those leagues that have a rule allowing a batter to be waved to 1B for an intentional walk, that the rationale was because the UMPIRES have "other things to do."

Sheesh.

[warriordad]

Dave H- You're right. The ump doesn't make the rule. He is put in a position where he has to do it even if he may disagree. I have seen some umps give the coach a nasty look when they over use the intentional walk.

GreyMule-We had a similar rule, but it worked the other way. Teams were limited to 9 batters in the inning. In this case, they had the rule that the inning could not end with a batter struck by the pitch. We only encountered one team that took advantage of this rule. After facing 8 batters and not hitting a one, the 9th batter was hit by the first pitch. So were the 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th batters. One of our parents clearly heard the coach tell a batter to lean into the pitch. We positioned someone behind the backstop and they verified that every kid was leaning into the strike zone. The coach for the other team thought it was funny. The ump was inexperienced and wouldn't make the proper call. They changed the rule after that season.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by polyck
There were two outs, a man on 2nd and 3rd and he came up to bat. He could have easily brought both guys home.

An intentional walk in this situation is not unusual or abnormal. If the game is being played competitively for the purpose of determining a league champion, then nobody should hold it against a coach for employing a legal and common strategy to try to maximize his teams chances of winning.

If the league is not competitive, meaning no scores or standings are being kept and it's truly just for fun, then you've got an argument. But I doubt your league is structured that way.

Your first post had me thinking this kid was such a superstar that the problem was he was always being IBB'ed. Now that you've explained the situation in more detail, I think your gripe isn't particularly valid.

[polyck]

Response to Dave Hensley:

Please consider this was one situation which several coaches, umpires and players questioned. What was posted was not explained in detail and based on the lack of information provided I can see where you might not be able to consider the big picture.

My intention was not to gripe but to get a feel of what others might have to say in a situation such as this.

We are talking about a true all-star player and this is from a coaches/umpires observation. If he sticks with the game (and I quite certain he will) he will definately be a player to reckon with as the years go by,

[jicecone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gsf23
[B]

Originally posted by ozzy6900

The following is not directed to anyone, just a general statement.

I coach a high school team and every year, without fail, I have to teach all the freshman everything they should have already learned from their previous coaches, but didn't because they were more concerned about winning than teaching.

You have to teach the Freshmen? Is LL now the official training Camp for HS ball? Aren't freshmen suppose to be the begining level for HS ball, the level were they are learning the game so that they may be able to move on to JV and the Varsity.

As far as the intentional walk being fair. The next thing you know, they will be making rules that a batter shouldn't be able to be thrown out at first, after haveing to run all that far.

Gentlemen we keep trying to relate 8-11 year olds to professional players. Quit living your dreams through your kids and let them grow up

[Rich]

Originally posted by polyck
Response to Dave Hensley:

Please consider this was one situation which several coaches, umpires and players questioned. What was posted was not explained in detail and based on the lack of information provided I can see where you might not be able to consider the big picture.

My intention was not to gripe but to get a feel of what others might have to say in a situation such as this.

We are talking about a true all-star player and this is from a coaches/umpires observation. If he sticks with the game (and I quite certain he will) he will definately be a player to reckon with as the years go by,

Who cares? If the situation calls for an IBB, then walk him! Baseball is a team game. If you're keeping score (and I'm sure you are) and it makes sense to walk him, then do it.

It's not going to hurt his development. Battering an 11-year-old pitcher does nothing to help his development anyway. And when he gets older they won't walk him as much. Unless he's Barry Bonds.

Legislate the IBB away and I'll have my pitcher throw four in the dirt. You can't stop this, and you shouldn't

--Rich