2-runners....1 base

[Rich]

Originally posted by gumpire

Maybe you can tell me what part of this rule is so hard for all of you understand? [/B]

I hope you enjoy talking to yourself, cause I'm thinking that's what you're going to get from this point forward from most of us.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by gumpire

Maybe you can tell me what part of this rule is so hard for all of you understand? [/B]

I'll try, once (w/o specific references):

"Each runner is entitled to the base he occupies ..." (I'll get to the ellipses in a minute): So, just reading this, what do we do if two runners are on the base?

"If two runners occupy a base, the base belongs to the leading runner": That answers that question.

"... (continuing from above) until he is forced to vacate it": An exception to the trailing runner rule above -- if a runner is forced, he can't safely occupy a base*.

"A runner is out for abandonment when he leaves the baseline": First, "leaves" is an active verb -- the runner must do something. Second, if you're going to call him out for abandonment when he's on the base, you're going to have to call every runner who is on second out -- you've already declared that part of the field to be "abandonment". Third, some "authoritative sources" (perhaps Evans or J/R, for example -- I don't have the specifics here) indicate not to call abandonment until the runner reaches foul territory.

""Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules." : This play is specifically covered in the rules, although you might need to put a couple of rules together.

*Play: R1 only. B1 grounds to F3. For some reason R1 retreats to the base. F3 (a) tags R1, then steps on first; or (b) steps on first then tags R1. Ruling: (a) Double play. R1 was forced from the base, so he's out when tagged, even though he was touching the base at the time he was tagged (I'm sure you can see how this applies to the play at hand). (b) B1 is out, R1 remains at first -- the force was removed when the base was tagged, so R1 is again able to "legally occupy" first.

[gumpire]

Bob; I have ZERO problem following or agreeing with your example. However, in my question/example, the runner did not begin to advance or RETURN to the base and the force was not removed.

If the play stands as is, and the next pitch is thrown, what happens then? A double-play at third? If it's a caught fly ball, can both runners on second stay put because the force is removed? What if, on a caught fly ball, the runner on 1st tags up and advances to 2B...can all 3 runners stay there if they like and play continues as if nothings out of the ordinary? Which runner currently on 2B has to tag up on a caught fly ball? Both? The following runner only?

I just firmly believe that something has to be done to prevent all of this potential confusion.

I don't appreciate all the negative comments I've been receiving. I don't think that each and everyone of you would know exactly what to do if this situation occured in a game you were working, so my questioning and debating the issue is an attempt to learn more.

Thank you.

[Edited by gumpire on Apr 7th, 2004 at 02:03 PM]

[Tim C]

"I don't think that each and everyone of you would know exactly what to do if this situation occured in a game you were working,"

And I disagree. I believe that everyone that tried to help you (Third World Play, or not) actually would know how to handle the situation.

You have helped me very much. I now know how much effort to put into answers of question that you generate.

Tee

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by gumpire
I don't think that each and everyone of you would know exactly what to do if this situation occured in a game you were working, so my questioning and debating the issue is an attempt to learn more.

If you won't know what to do if the situation arises, then don't let yourself get in that situation.