Fed Balk Rule Question

[Phil Vivenzio]

I have asked this question constantly, and I still do not get a understandable answer. It is my understanding that the purpose of balk rules is to protect the runner from being deceived. One of the situations in Fed ball where a pitcher upon getting set leaves his glove higher than his chin, this is a balk. I do not see where this move is deceptive. Does any one know why this rule was instituted? And if no one does, does anyone know what steps must be taken to get this rule changed?

Thanks in advance for anyone's input.

Regards
Phil Vivenzio

[Tim C]

Phil:

Carl has tried to answer this issue several times. I can only paraphrase:

When FED added the line it was simply a determiner of what other rule books had called "the body". Brad just tried to define more clearly what was meant by "the body".

Now I am under the impression that this is being changed in the 2001 FED rule book (along with the OTHER big issue).

[Rog]

Now I am under the impression that this is being changed in the 2001 FED rule book (along with the OTHER big issue).


Not as yet it seems -
http://www.nfhs.org/PR-BBall_pitch00.htm

[Tim C]

In the "First Blush" hand-out for changes this WAS listed as an editorial change that was beging considered.

Tim Stevens may know more.

[Rog]

Trying to keep abreast of rules changes is soooooo much fun .........NOT!
That T Stevens be up against a wall with that Fed book!

Originally posted by Tim C
In the "First Blush" hand-out for changes this WAS listed as an editorial change that was beging considered.

Tim Stevens may know more.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Rog
Now I am under the impression that this is being changed in the 2001 FED rule book (along with the OTHER big issue).


Not as yet it seems -
http://www.nfhs.org/PR-BBall_pitch00.htm

Rog, et. al.:

The new language is a considerable "clarification." The old language said: the entire glove completely below the chin. The new language says "at or below the chin."

I remind you guys that until 1985 the PRO interpretation was like the FED: The pitcher must stop below the chin. That year, Barney Deary speaking for Baseball Umpire Development (PBUC), ruled that the "head was part of the body," and thus legalizaed a stop above the shoulders.

Don't make fun of Barney. Many experts had always equated "body" with "torso," so Deary's interpretation broke new ground.

It's no big deal, and anyway, good pitching coaches all require the pitcher to drop farther down for his stop so that his body conceals the glove and pitching hand.

[Rog]

So, what we're talking about is "clearer" language? 2001 rule = Glove at or below; as opposed to, 2000 rule = entire glove below the chin....must be time for new glasses!

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Rog, et. al.:

The new language is a considerable "clarification." The old language said: the entire glove completely below the chin. The new language says "at or below the chin."

I remind you guys that until 1985 the PRO interpretation was like the FED: The pitcher must stop below the chin. That year, Barney Deary speaking for Baseball Umpire Development (PBUC), ruled that the "head was part of the body," and thus legalizaed a stop above the shoulders.

Don't make fun of Barney. Many experts had always equated "body" with "torso," so Deary's interpretation broke new ground.

It's no big deal, and anyway, good pitching coaches all require the pitcher to drop farther down for his stop so that his body conceals the glove and pitching hand.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phil Vivenzio
[B]I have asked this question constantly, and I still do not get a understandable answer. It is my understanding that the purpose of balk rules is to protect the runner from being deceived. One of the situations in Fed ball where a pitcher upon getting set leaves his glove higher than his chin, this is a balk. I do not see where this move is deceptive.

Phil, Papa C (on Eteamz - FED Board) asked us what FED rules we liked and those that we didn't. I think it was almost unanimous that most favor the OBR Pitching rules to that of FED. The other rule most do not like is that a balk in FED is immediately dead as opposed to delayed dead in OBR. If a player hits a HR on a Balk in FED too bad.


There are other differencies as well (outlined in Papa C's BRD) such as in FED - no checking the runner; In the windup, one has to step back off the rubber (with Pivot foot) before attempting a pickoff otherwise Balk - Not so in OBR.

Most FED rules I like with the exception of the Pitching rules and the balk being immediately dead. Most leagues I umpire in the summer have adopted FED with the exception of the pitching rules.


Pete Booth

[David Van Milligen]

I was under the impression it was to prevent a spit ball.

[Bfair]

Certainly setting high is no more deceptive than setting low. I really don't know if any advantage is gained with a "high" set point, although some of the best moves I have seen come from a higher set.

I think Fed and OBR has always differed in their technical details of describing the setpoint. I don't have the old books Carl may have (and are rumored to have been written on parchment LOL), but I recall old Fed rules said must set
"with BALL below chin". The problem was you didn't know where in the glove the ball was. I felt that was why they changed to glove below chin in order to clarify Fed rule and make it easier for umps to determine.

I suspect they are making change indicated to any part of glove below chin due to numerous complaints. This rewording brings it back to the interpretation that was used under their old wording. Keep in mind the kids try to emulate the pros and many want to take a higher set which recently has not been allowed.