Player/Managers in MLB

tornado · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 03, 2003, 09:33pm

Since there's not much elso to discuss:

How did MLB umps used to handle Player/Manager visits to the mound? For example: if the P/M was the shortstop, then what constituted a visit to the pitcher and what didn't?

Just wondering...

tornadothor

nine01c · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 03, 2003, 10:21pm

You really ARE lonely for baseball talk!
What's worse, I am replying.

It is my understanding that a player-manager is considered to be a manager and is limited to all the restrictions of Rule 8.06 regarding trips to the mound.

Hang in there. Only 13 weeks until the first spring training game.

gsf23 · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 04, 2003, 10:03am

I seem to remember one game when Pete Rose was a player/manager. He was playing first and a pitcher was struggling. He had already used his trip to the mound that inning so we was motioning to the second baseman to go talk to the pitcher. If I remember right, the umps made him remove the pitcher. I can't really remember their reasoning for it.

[Edited by gsf23 on Dec 4th, 2003 at 10:46 AM]

nine01c · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 04, 2003, 10:29am

The reason would be because Rose (the Manager) had relayed info to a(nother) player who then visited the pitcher. This is considered a visit. It's the same as the manager from the dugout speaking with his catcher or third baseman, and then that player goes directly over and speaks to the pitcher. It's a trip, and if it's the second one that inning, pitcher must be removed.

gsf23 · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 04, 2003, 11:52am

I sure that is probably why I am just wondering what they consider relaying information. If I remember back it seems to me that all Rose did was turn to the second baseman and say "go talk to him". I could be wrong on that, it did happened a while ago. But now, could the player/manager, from his position on the field yell out instructions to the pitcher, like "Settle down..keep your front shoulder in..this guy likes first pitch fastballs" or would those be considered visits?

[Edited by gsf23 on Dec 4th, 2003 at 10:58 AM]

JJ · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 04, 2003, 11:22pm

In the Independant leagues I've worked where a player/manager was involved, they were told at home plate to let US know if they wanted to talk with the pitcher, and it was up to us to then say "trip" or "no trip". A word of encouragement where a regular manager wouldn't make a trip - perhaps the player/coach wanted to pat the guy on the back and get some rosin on his hands - most likely would not be charged as a trip, but any get-together where a regular manager would make a trip WOULD count as a trip. As soon as the player/coach realized WE would decide trip or no trip, he just didn't go to the mound unless he WAS making a trip. It was never an issue with any of the opposing coaches.

Rich Ives · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 09:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
I sure that is probably why I am just wondering what they consider relaying information. If I remember back it seems to me that all Rose did was turn to the second baseman and say "go talk to him". I could be wrong on that, it did happened a while ago. But now, could the player/manager, from his position on the field yell out instructions to the pitcher, like "Settle down..keep your front shoulder in..this guy likes first pitch fastballs" or would those be considered visits?

[Edited by gsf23 on Dec 4th, 2003 at 10:58 AM]

It's considered a visit because the rules say it's a visit. It takes away any need to interpret the reason.

8.06 "If the manager or coach goes to the catcher or infielder and that player then goes to the mound or the pitcher comes to him at his position before there is an intervening play (a pitch or other play) that will be the same as the manager or coach going to the mound.

Any attempt to evade or circumvent this rule by the manager or coach going to the catcher or an infielder and then that player going to the mound to confer with the pitcher shall constitute a trip to the mound."

gsf23 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 10:06am

Rich, I know that is what the rules says. The question I am asking is what constitutes, going to another player. In the sitch. I am describing, the player/manager never physically went over and talked to another player. He simply yelled from his position to another player, "Go talk to him." He wasn't told what to say, just simply go talk to him. How is that different from a manager sitting in a dugout yelling out to his catcher "go settle him down" or just getting the catchers attention and motioning him to go out to the mound.

[Edited by gsf23 on Dec 5th, 2003 at 09:10 AM]

Rich Ives · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Rich, I know that is what the rules says. The question I am asking is what constitutes, going to another player. In the sitch. I am describing, the player/manager never physically went over and talked to another player. He simply yelled from his position to another player, "Go talk to him." He wasn't told what to say, just simply go talk to him. How is that different from a manager sitting in a dugout yelling out to his catcher "go settle him down" or just getting the catchers attention and motioning him to go out to the mound.

[Edited by gsf23 on Dec 5th, 2003 at 09:10 AM]

The difference is that the player-manager is on the field, not in the dugout.

It doesn't matter what the manager said to the player. If the catcher or a player went to the dugout, talked the manager, then went to the mound, you wouldn't know what was said then either. (Happened to the Marlins in the WS this year).

As for a "talk to him" signal from the dugout, that's not the same because the manager is not on the field.

Just call it and stop looking for reasons not to.

nickdangerME · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 05, 2003, 10:32pm

Rich:

I'm not sure I buy the argument that a player-manager on the field can't tell another player to "go talk to him" without being charged a visit. The rule you quoted covers a situation when a coach or manager "goes to" another fielder who then "goes to" the pitcher." So long as the player-manager hangs out near his normal position and just yells over to an infielder, "Go talk to him" without "going to" other fielder, I don't see a visit. Similarly, if the player-manager yells to the pitcher, "Pitch him fastballs up and in, he'll bail every time," or, "Keep you shoulder down," I don't see a visit. If he wants to give his instructions out loud without "going to" the pitcher, there's no visit there any more than if the manager yells from the bench. Is there something more to it I'm overlooking?

Nick