Yelling Back

[Limacon2]

High School Baseball Game under NFHS rules. With runner on second base, umpire tells shortstop that he is not allowed to say back while he is working to hold the runner close to the base. Is the umpire correct?

[mbates50]

Originally Posted by Limacon2

High School Baseball Game under NFHS rules. With runner on second base, umpire tells shortstop that he is not allowed to say back while he is working to hold the runner close to the base. Is the umpire correct?

Yes

[Limacon2]

Can you give me a rule reference? I could not find one in the NFHS Rule Book.

[bob jenkins]

There's some case play where the fielders say that phrase on either a grounder, or a "throw" from the catcher.

The general philosophy in FED ball is that the fielders are not allowed to say things that an opposing coach or umpire would say.

[LRZ]

I don't do FED, but Rule 2-22-1 supports a verbal obstruction call:
"Obstruction is an act (intentional or unintentional, as well as physical or verbal) by a fielder, any member of the defensive team or its team-personnel that hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play...."

[scrounge]

Here is a case play attached to the rule that LRZ posted that pretty much covers the situation. At higher levels of ball, this kind of bush stuff can be self-policed...but obviously we don't want HS students doing that.

2.22.1 SITUATION A:

R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells “get back, get back.” R1 thinks B2 has hit a popup and starts back to first where he is tagged out.

RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by Limacon2

Can you give me a rule reference? I could not find one in the NFHS Rule Book.

By the way, Limacon2, I prefer to find answers in hard copy rule books and case books, in part because I almost always come across other issues that I did not know or had forgotten. But on-line search capabilities can be helpful.

There are fairly current, not too out-of-date NFHS baseball rules books on-line, where you can easily do a word search. As I said, I don't do FED, so I don't have NFHS rule books on hand; instead, I got the answer to your question in a 2015 on-line rule book by doing a "find" for "verbal."

My apologies if this alternative is not news to you--I don't mean to condescend.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Here is a case play attached to the rule that LRZ posted that pretty much covers the situation. At higher levels of ball, this kind of bush stuff can be self-policed...but obviously we don't want HS students doing that.

2.22.1 SITUATION A:

R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells “get back, get back.” R1 thinks B2 has hit a popup and starts back to first where he is tagged out.

RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.

Interesting! What if F6 instead of "get back" says "mine"?

If that's not enough to be obstruction, how about if the catcher knocks the ball against the bat the batter is holding (or some other bat nearby) to make a sound before throwing the ball into the air?

[ilyazhito]

AFAIK, NFHS only has verbal obstruction in the rulebook, However, under 10-1-1, "Any umpire has the authority to order a player, coach or team attendant to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administration of these rules and to enforce prescribed penalties." This means that if an umpire judges that the catcher knocking the ball against the ball to confuse the offense, the umpire can order the catcher and his team to refrain from doing that. If the catcher refuses to comply, he can be ejected, and obstruction can be enforced ("Obstruction is an act... by any member of the defensive team that hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play", and throwing the ball against a bat to simulate a hit changes the pattern of play). Thus, both your example and the OP can legitimately be considered obstruction, because the runners in the example might hear the sound and believe that the ball was hit, and the batter might also run because the ball was hit. In this case, the umpires would shut the play down to prevent unnecessary confusion, and warn the defensive team or eject the catcher for causing confusion in the game, according to 10-1-1. In a minor league game, a catcher threw a potato to third base, and tagged the runner with the real ball. The umpires ruled that the player was not out due to the catcher's actions, and awarded him home. Therefore, if using a potato to mislead a runner is obstruction, then throwing the ball against the bat to simulate a hit is also obstruction.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Interesting! What if F6 instead of "get back" says "mine"?

If that's not enough to be obstruction, how about if the catcher knocks the ball against the bat the batter is holding (or some other bat nearby) to make a sound before throwing the ball into the air?

FED has a specific case play where a player in the dugout hits two bats together to make this sound -- OBS. Apply it in this situation.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Interesting! What if F6 instead of "get back" says "mine"?

There's a difference between a decoy and mimicking the offense.