The Official Forum - dropped 3rd strike mechanics

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Re: Re: I think we're confusing two situations

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by YoungRighty
I think we're confusing two situations.

Case One: The batter can run on a dropped third strike. It is not obvious whether it was caught or not. I think we all agree that the caught/not caught decision should be clearly communicated immediately. My question was (and still is): what are the best mechanics to do this?

A) Give the "safe sign" or point at the dirt.

B) Verbalize "safe" "no catch" or "[the ball's] on the ground"

Choose one from column A, one from column B.

Bob is, of course, describing the entirely appropriate mechanic for the BASE UMPIRE to advise the Plate Umpire that the 3rd strike was uncaught.

That is not the same mechanic as the PLATE UMPIRE might use in declaring a batter out to prevent a defensive play on him at 1st base.

Cheers

Re: Re: Re: I think we're confusing two situations

Quote:

Originally posted by Warren Willson

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by YoungRighty
I think we're confusing two situations.

Case One: The batter can run on a dropped third strike. It is not obvious whether it was caught or not. I think we all agree that the caught/not caught decision should be clearly communicated immediately. My question was (and still is): what are the best mechanics to do this?

A) Give the "safe sign" or point at the dirt.

B) Verbalize "safe" "no catch" or "[the ball's] on the ground"

Choose one from column A, one from column B.

Bob is, of course, describing the entirely appropriate mechanic for the BASE UMPIRE to advise the Plate Umpire that the 3rd strike was uncaught.

That is not the same mechanic as the PLATE UMPIRE might use in declaring a batter out to prevent a defensive play on him at 1st base.

Cheers

I was giving the plate umpire mechanics on anything other than an obvious uncaught third strike.

And, since I'm here anyway, I'll add my $.02 to the side that iterates "The Batter is Out" when he starts to run in a situation where he can't be safe at first.

It's explicit in the FED case book; I use it at all levels.

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
1. The defense is an active part of the game. They are responsible for being "in the game" and aware of the situation. They are not spectators.

2. We allow runners on base to behave in such a manner as to draw an un-wise throw, this is no different. At some levels it is coached strategy.

3. It is not specifically outlawed by rule in OBR.

4. This is really not much differet from the batter, who on ball three, begins to trot to first while R1 trots to second. If the defense is asleep and R1 makes it to second, do we send him back to first when the batter comes back to the plate? Hell, no. He just stole a base from a spectating defense.

Umpires who prevent this, in my opinion, are interjecting themselves in the flow of the game.

I was taught to be a channel in the flow of the game, not a dam.

I know in my own association some umpires "teach" that we should declare that the "Batter is Out" when first base is occupied at the time of the pitch with less than two out. If the catcher does not know that then once he throws a ball that he didn't need to throw into right field he will learn. I also use the mechanic mentioned in this thread where BU points a finger toward the ground on an uncaught third strike and uses a clenched fist to signal that the pitch was caught before hitting the ground. To do other wise is i/m/h/o opinion not preventative umpiring but rather is coaching

I go with the cathers reaction if the ball is caught I just say strike 3 and do the pullout, If the ball touched dirt then I say strike 3 then wait until there is a tag before I call the batter/runner out. If the cather doesnt have his head in the game and know when to throw and when not to then he shouldnt be the cather now I do older boys/mens games so I guess if I did young ball players I might approach that different. So I guess use what you think is best for the level that you work....UMP17

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I was giving the plate umpire mechanics on anything other than an obvious uncaught third strike.

And, since I'm here anyway, I'll add my $.02 to the side that iterates "The Batter is Out" when he starts to run in a situation where he can't be safe at first.

It's explicit in the FED case book; I use it at all levels.

My apologies, Bob. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I thought you must have believed we were talking about the BASE umpire. <i>Mia culpa</i>.

I didn't realise that FED had this explicitly covered and, since we don't have FED Down Under, I can't say I've ever seen a PLATE umpire use the mechanic you outlined. You have helped me learn something "new" yet again.

Cheers,