I am not the easiest guy to get along with on the field. I coach with the same intensity as a played. I am always fired up and vocal to me players. Sometimes that carries over to the umpires regarding calls. If I think there is a bad call I will let the umpire know. By the way my players are not allowed to talk, or show up the umpires. If the do they sit.
We were involved in a very tight game a few weeks ago, and a particular umpire made three very questionable calls that were not in our favor. I let him know that I didn't agree each of them. Needless to say we didn't get along after that. However, after each play, after each game I believe everything disagreement and argument should stay on the field, and be dropped.
Yesterday that same umpire called our game. I could tell right off the bat at the plate meeting that he already had an attitude toward me. So I kept my mouth shut all game until the sixth inning. We were on defense and there was a great play in the hole, SS made a great play and made a low through to 1B, and the player dug it out clearly in time. The runner was called safe. I very respectfully called time, and started walking to the field. The field umpire pointed at me as I approached the line and yelled "Don't even bother." I indicted, again very respectfully that I just wanted an explaination. He said one more word I was out of here. Again this was the first thing that I said the whole game. I felt that he was still holding a grudge toward me from the last game. I believe as a mahager that I have a right to an explanation why he thought the runner was safe. Was the throw late, did the 1baseman pull his foot, was there no control?
Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?

First off.... It's a judgement call. He saw something there that made him call the runner safe.

Second, you state that you are very vocal and if you think a call is bad you will let the ump know... Can the ump let you know if you made a bad coaching decision???

Whatever the ump saw, he saw. He doesn't need to explain anything to you.

"Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?'

Let it go! Is it really that important that you know why? The official made a call you didn't like. Right or wrong, it's not going to get changed. So wether you realize it or not, or even if your congenial about it, the message you are sending is that your going to dispute the call.

Thats the same message your sending to your players. If you think that doing what I say and not what I do, works in today's world, you need some good coaching lessons.

Learn to deal with the part of the game you cannot control and you will be a much better coach. Does anyone yell at you each time you make a wrong coaching decision? Sometimes it just happens. Officials are human beings just like you. That means we are imperfect to begin with, and have to learn how to become more perfect everyday.

Spend more time teaching your players to be respectful and then good ballplayers, I guarntee you will gain more of their respect than the approach your taking now.

Now, you can either take my advise and spend more time in the game helping your players become better people and ballplayers. Or tell me I'm wrong, and spend less time with your players and more time explaining to your parents along the side lines, why your team always gets hosed.

"Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future?"

RESPECT, RESPECT, RESPECT.

respect
 

First of all I really enjoy this website. It really gives me an opportunity to make myself a better manager. You are absolutely right. It was a judgement call. And all umpires have a difficult job, especially close calls, and deserve respect. Shouldn't the respect work both ways? In an instructional league, it would be nice to know what the reason for the call was. If my player pulled his foot, I can instruct him on another possible way to field it. I was very respectful, as a mentioned, in handling this matter. I didn't raise my voice, I asked for time, an walked toward the umpire to ask a simple question. I did feel disrespected in the way he handled it. Do you think that I should be warned for asking in a polite manner. My kids are not allowed to question an umpire. It is my job. Should I sit on my hands, and not question a questionable call? It seems that because I ask what he saw that made hime call the runner safe, it automatically turns into a pissing contest with this guy. We are there for the kids.

Perhaps this umpire was just doing some preventative officiating to avoid any problems. It sounds like perhaps your first encounter with him in your earlier game was not done in a respectful manner. Also it seems that perhaps you get a little hot at times as stated in your quote below:

It sounds like you set a precedent with this guy based on your earlier reactions and he may have just been looking to avoid further confrontations.

No manager, coach, player is ever going to openly admit that they agree with a call that goes against them but believe it or not, as officials we really don't care who wins.

I agree with both sides of this issue. First off coach, you did indicate that you were intense towards your players and that it sometimes carries over towards the umpires, so you did let your "MO" out of the bag.

However, I do think the umpire was wrong in what he did when you wanted an explanation on the safe/out call. I totally agree with you with what you said about when a game is done, it is done, and everything is left on the field from that day, and it ends there. Even though, it was a judgement call by the umpire, since you were conducting yourself in a good fashion up that play, I think the umpire could have done you a courtesy and explained what he saw on the play.

As hard as it is, I do try to leave things behind after each game. This past year, I worked the USSSA baseball World Series, and I ended up dumping a player for swearing at me after I called him out at second base. That call ended the game. Well, game management had no problem with the ejection what so ever...however, where the problem lied was, I was to see that team again in their next game doing the dish.

So, what I did, to avoid any problems of any kind, was just switch crews for that one game only. That way it give me a game off from that team, and it gave the team a game off from me. In my opinion, that it probably, what the umpire should have done for you. He should worked a different game, just so everyone had better feeling, and things were allowed to stayed died down.

I know, I probably will receive some heat from the forum on my approach of this topic, but just as much as we tell coaches we want respect as umpires, you guys as coaches deserve respect from us as umpires.

Good Point
 

I think that is a very good point. I think that had a lot to do with it. I really think that as a manager I have a responsibilty to back my players. I really did make an effort to ask about the play and not question his "judgement" , but to find out why he made the call he did. At least that way my player would understand what he did, if anything. I really think that is important. Do you have any suggestions on what I might do now, with what I have told you. Do you think it would be appropriate to maybe talk to this guy, and let him know that I have nothing against "him", I have just questioned a couple of calls. Which as far as I am concerned, "Is Baseball." I know that umpires talk to each other. I am trying to tone it down, and be respectful, and I want to make sure that my boys aren't getting shafted because I have pissed off an umpire.

"You argue with the umpire because there is nothing else you can do about it." LEO DUROCHER

While I agree with the points of my brethren in the posts above, I think perhaps the umpire did hold the previous day's activities against you more than he should. You could have helped that at the end of the previous game with a handshake and a "Nice game blue - I know I was a little vocal earlier, but I know you guys have a tough job to do, and I appreciate your coming out here for the kids", or something along those lines.

That said - I always start each game fresh. I see the same coaches over and over. Sometimes in consecutive games even. Bygones are bygones. If you'd been quiet all game, and came out calmly, I'd have given you a second to ask your question. Umpire shouldn't have shut you down that quickly.

One other suggestion - ask for time, have your timeout granted, and THEN come out of the dugout. It's much less confrontational than just calling time and approaching blue.

Mattinglyfan,

You are not owed an explaination on judgment calls ever. It is a courtesy that the umpire even allows you to argue without being tossed. Always remember that fact. Because if I want to go strictly by the rules, he had every right to toss you.

Secondly, I would like to know how that umpire showed you "attitude?" Maybe he was trying not to be overly talkative, because of what happen the day before. We are human and I will admit that if a coach acted a certain way, I am not going to be all buddy, buddy with him the next time. Not because I have a grudge, but because I do not want to add to an already unconfrontable situation. Maybe he had nothing to say to you. But I would still like to know what he did to you?

Peace

JR, you have to admit that even though Mattingly wore out his welcome the day before, there's nothing wrong with calling time to ask whether the first baseman pulled his foot or bobbled the catch. Nor should there be. I still think there was a lot Mattingly could have done better in this situation, it sounds (from this admittedly 1-sided account) like it could have been handled better by blue as well.

Mattingly - you should take JR's first part to heart though. There is no inalienable right to argue a judgement call at all. Come out and ask a question - fine. But it sounds like you'd pissed this guy off enough in that first game, that by all rights he probably should have tossed you during THAT game, so maybe you were more belligerent than you think you were.

I can envision a conversation prior to the game, where young inexperienced homeplate umpire sees you, explains to his partner what happened the day before, and experienced base ump suggests: "If he breathes funny, toss him." Right or wrong - I can certainly see it happening.

Game
 

Mb,
I agree with parts of what everyone said, that is whay I came to a seems to be a predominently umpire frequented website. You see the game from a different perspective. For the record, I have the ultimate respect for anyone that participates in the greatest game on earth. I have been around the game for 25 five years. Most of those were playing. I have a lot to learn as a manager. I think no one ever stops learning. Manager, Player, and Umpires. When there is a situation, I ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS come over and the the ump know that I appreciate the job he is doing and let him know that my reaction to a call, had nothing to do with him personally. IT IS A GAME. I think that you should go out win on every play "period." Sometimes things are said during the game that no one would ever say off the field to one another. Sometimes I purposley will make an extra effort to let blue know that me and everyone on Earth saw the play different, hoping that maybe he will acknowledge that he makes mistakes too. And maybe next time I will get one too. It seems like sometimes umpires might take things, and carry over to the next game. That's just plain ridiculous. I am not asking anyone to be "buddy buddy". What happens on the field should stay on the field. That is why we shake hands, and tell the other team good game, you did a great job. Because it is a game.

I agree with you.
 

I completely agree that he can ask a question, but understand when you are dealing with other human beings, they can and will hold grudges (if we have not noticed on the these internet officiating sites ;)). Yes, he can and should be able to ask a question, but when you burn a bridge with your behavior the day before, do not expect to get as much rope the next day. We do not know the story from the umpire that was confronted, so he might have much more to say about the coach's behavior then we know. At least he was being honest and telling he coach to "save his words" so to speak. He could have tossed him on the spot. I am not advocating that action, but the coach is on borrowed time. He should understand that much and maybe he will not argue ever call that he disagrees with. Because when a coach does, you are not going to get more respect from that umpire and you might find yourself closer to the ledge.


That could have easily happen. I know many guys that like tossing coaches in baseball, so that would never surprise me, nor is it far fetched.

Peace

Thanks
 

Thanks guys. All points taken. I will make it a point that the next time I see that umpire I will let him know that I think he does a heck of a job. He is one of the better umpires I have seen. I think that he can even make a bad call every now and then though. Like you said, we all can make mistakes. Myself definitely included.
Is this the greatest game on earth or what!!

"I believe managing is like holding a dove in your hand. If you hold it too tightly you kill it, but if you hold it too loosely, you lose it." Tommy Lasorda"

"I have just questioned a couple of calls. Which as far as I am concerned, "Is Baseball.""

This is what most people really believe. Not only Baseball , but almost all sports now days. And Im not talking about sports where the players are paid professionally to play. Although, they probably respect the officials a lot more than the amateurs.

You keep missing the point, Coaching youth players is not about you. It is about them and the Game.

The Game, well thats simple. Any rulebook or manual can help you in teaching the basics of how to pitch, catch and throw and hit.

Them, your players. Well, how you talk , walk and breath will be your mark that each and everyone will remember you by. That is, if they want to remember you.

Why must you insist on questioning the calls?

I agree, respect is a two way street. Which means, if you truley want it, then you TRULEY have to give it. Even if the official is horrible. Bite your tongue, Suck it up and show them who is really the respectful person on the field.

It also saves on the cost of rolaids and mallox. Good Luck.

Re: Game
 

Several times in this post you referred to your team/leagu as an instructional level... Perhaps the attitude reflected above causes some of the difficulties you have encountered.

With my instructional level players my philosophy is that you should go out and LEARN something on every play...

Probably not a good thing to do to if you want to get on an umpires good side.

Just because you think you saw a play differently does not mean that you saw it correctly.

And what if the official said he was wrong on some plays... then you would just start doubting EVERY call he makes.

Re: Thanks
 

I'm very impressed that you have come here with an open mind. You'll understand if many of us umpires don't believe many coaches have that ability.

In your original post, you mentioned, "However, after each play, after each game I believe everything disagreement and argument should stay on the field, and be dropped." This is the attitude that most of us try to take, too. But I hope your smart enough to realize that is a goal and cannot always be obtained. If some one is treating you like crap for 8 innings, you can only expect more of the same in the 9th.

However, you are right that the umpire made a mistake. He should have tossed you when he got fed up with you in game one. He should not have let continue. By doing so, he walked around for several days after that game saying to friends and family, "There was this coach so-and-so that was acting like a real jerk and I should have tossed him." Having it build up like that is what caused him to over react in the second game.

My thought of what to do next is (1) apologize sincerely to the umpire, telling him that you are changing your style of talking with umpires, and (2) change your style of talking with umpires.

Re: Thanks
 

Quite a thread in which a coach is reviewing his own actions and trying to understand umpires, or at least this particular one. I certainly have to give a degree of credit to anyone who posts as "Mattinglyfan". I hope I am correct in assuming it is for the former Yankee player rather than the umpire. "Donny Baseball" was a class act. I would ask what age the players are and if you have had similar difficulties with other umpires. If not chalk it up to umpires do indeed make mistakes and we all have different personalities. I would question your earlier statement

Quote:

...Sometimes I purposley will make an extra effort to let blue know that me and everyone on Earth saw the play different, hoping that maybe he will acknowledge that he makes mistakes too. And maybe next time I will get one too.

I think this is the most misunderstood part of umpiring. Really good officials don't correct mistakes with make-up calls. If they boot one I think they try to bear down and not let it happen again to either team. Try TALKING more and yelling less and your 25-year baseball skills will prove more mutually beneficial. Jim/NYC

The Post-Game Remark
 

I agree with Ump20 that I don't try to match up mistakes. They may happen from time to time, and I do everything in my power to prevent one, but two wrongs do not make a right in this situation. On top of that, who is to say which mistake affects the game more? So, "balancing" mistakes is nearly impossible anyways.

One thing that was mentioned by mbcrowder was at the end of the game to have a positive remark. While I personally hightail it as quickly out of a ballpark as possible, there have been times when a coach, players, and/or parents were heard yelling a "Thanks blue", "Good game blue" or some other positive remark. Whether they be backed with truth or not, those little comments make all the difference.

While I am an umpire, I also feel that the arguing of calls is also part of baseball. Assuming we don't let technology like QuesTec ruin our jobs, it will always be a part of baseball. If using respect, any coach I feel has the <i>right</i> to ask a question. However, the umpire also has the right, to deny an answer, or give a "just because" type answer. I doubt there are many officials that can get themselves to boot a call just for spite.

I will always remember the coach that jogged up to me after the game (his team lost) with an extra Capri Sun from the kids' post-game snack. I felt I had umped a fairly good game, and did not hear many complaints aside from the mumblings from the bench. As I was in the parking lot on my way to the car, I heard a "Hey Blue!" When I turned, the losing team's coach smiled, stuck out his hand and said, "You worked hard out there Blue. Have this one on us."

It's the little things that make the difference.

<i> Originally posted by Mattinglyfan </i>

<b> I believe as a manager that I have a right to an explanation why he thought the runner was safe. Was the throw late, did the 1baseman pull his foot, was there no control?
Any suggestions how I might handle this situation with this umpire in the future? </b>

First things first - You do not have a RIGHT for an explanation on safes / outs; balls / strikes; Fair / Foul.

If there is a rule interpretation or awarding of bases that you do not agree with, then you have the "right" to question a ruling but not JUDGEMENT Calls.

Let's turn it around a bit.

Suppose you sent a certain runner home from second base on a single and the runner was thrown out by a mile. Would you like your judgement questioned as to why you sent the runner? or You keep your starting F1 in the game for one batter too many meaning F1 gives up a gopher ball.

You call for a hit /run where B1 K's and R1 is a dead duck at second. In other words I do not think you as coach would want players , parents etc. questioning your judgement.

If F4, F5, or F6 doesn't matter can't handle a ground ball and the inning goes on forever, I think you would get upset if we said "Hey Skip common take out so and so".

Therefore in summary you do not have the right to question judgement calls. This isn't the PROS where it's tolerated.

Pete Booth

Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself. I know this is a coach that posted but what about taking it one step further with a player....

I was filling in this season as a favor to a friend of mine during a recreational women's slow-pitch game. I was behind the plate and there was a play at first where 1B may have pulled her foot. It really could have gone either way but to make a long story short after the game another player on the team familiar to me said, "Chris, that call sucked!" I could've/should've kept my mouth shut but because I had heard quite a bit during the whole game about that call I said to her, "You made a few errors at short tonight didn't you?" "Yes." "Well, does that mean you suck too?"

I know that was rather harsh but sometimes I just get tired of players and coaches wanting a perfect game from the officials. Bottom line is I bet most coaches, players and Mattinglyfan would change their minds VERY QUICKLY if they themselves put on a mask. You want to point out the mistakes umps make....put on a mask, get behind the catcher, make your first mistake (it will happen) and then, knowing that you made a mistake, let's see how you react when a coach wants to tell you about it. You know you made a mistake. You don't need someone out there to tell you you did. Maybe that's why he didn't want to talk to you. Peace!!