Balk or Legal

[illinoisbluezeb]

Had a Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken coach asking if this is legal. I believe the rule set doesn't matter.

Simple explanation below.

Runners on base.
Pitcher in set position, hands together.
Pitcher rocks back, moves hands like starting to go home and simultaneously steps back/off rubber with pivot foot.

I believe it's a balk.
If he steps off first, then rocks back it's legal.

[scrounge]

It's hard to say without seeing it. It would be unreasonable to think that a pitcher has to step back by moving the foot only, with the rest of the body absolutely motionless. So you'd have to judge whether that was just part of stepping off. If you thought it was starting the motion or simulating the motion before stepping off, then yes it would be a balk. But be sure - and be prepared to explain.

[BoomerSooner]

I certainly understand Scrounge's hesitancy in making a decision without seeing the play, but to me the telling aspect of this is the description: "moves hands like starting to go home". Since the first description listed under Balks is: The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery., I can't help but think this is a balk.

[Rich Ives]

Post a video. I don't get the "rocks back" part.

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Post a video. I don't get the "rocks back" part.

I'm visualizing F1 beginning his motion to pitch with his NP leg and arm movement.

OBR 6.02 (5.07)(f ),(g),(i),(j) Pitcher Illegal Action (a) (8.05) Balks
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when:
(1) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I certainly understand Scrounge's hesitancy in making a decision without seeing the play, but to me the telling aspect of this is the description: "moves hands like starting to go home". Since the first description listed under Balks is: The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery., I can't help but think this is a balk.

Sure... I get your point.

But he said that he "moves hands..." and "simultaneously steps off" ... so the moving hands does not occur "while touching the plate".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Sure... I get your point.

But he said that he "moves hands..." and "simultaneously steps off" ... so the moving hands does not occur "while touching the plate".

Then wouldn't it be a balk for simulating a pitching motion while not touching the plate?

But, like Rich, I don't get the "rocks back" part and the set position. Maybe it was really the wind-up. Or, it was a windup move from the set position.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Then wouldn't it be a balk for simulating a pitching motion while not touching the plate?

But, like Rich, I don't get the "rocks back" part and the set position. Maybe it was really the wind-up. Or, it was a windup move from the set position.

I contemplated the not touching the plate argument when I initially replied, but in my mind I pictured the upper body movement occurring slightly before stepping off. In fairness to the OP, if the act was undeniably simultaneous, then I think the first part of Bob's response still makes this a balk.

To further elaborate on how I pictured this, and maybe to answer the how does a pitcher "rock back" from the set position, I pictured a pitcher that turns his shoulders or moves his hands away from his body or even backward before lifting his free foot. It isn't something you see often and it looks awkward. When I have it is usually with pitchers that have more of a sidearm delivery. Again, that is just what I pictured and regardless, I interpreted the OP's description "moves hands like starting to go home" as him making a judgement that the movement was a "motion naturally associated with his pitch". Whether touching or not touching the plate, this is a balk. Had the OP just said moved his hands and not included the phrase "like starting to go home", I'd be slower to make a judgement of the play.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb

Had a Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken coach asking if this is legal. I believe the rule set doesn't matter.

Simple explanation below.

Runners on base.
Pitcher in set position, hands together.
Pitcher rocks back, moves hands like starting to go home and simultaneously steps back/off rubber with pivot foot.

I believe it's a balk.
If he steps off first, then rocks back it's legal.

It always amazes me when coaches ask these kinds of questions.

I'm going to start asking them if they have a problem with just teaching their pitchers how to pitch properly.

Then no one has to wonder.

Rita