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-   -   Do you think this is a Balk? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/101229-do-you-think-balk.html)

ozzy6900 Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:57am

Do you think this is a Balk?
 
I don't know, guys but this looks like a balk to me!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2591331

Rich Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 985985)
I don't know, guys but this looks like a balk to me!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2591331

Nobody on base, can't be a balk.

Benchcoach Thu Apr 07, 2016 03:28pm

I'm no MLB Umpire but it looks like an illegal pitch to me, based on the following:

OBR 8.01(a) in part "From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

Underline added for emphasis

Rich Ives Thu Apr 07, 2016 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 985995)
I'm no MLB Umpire but it looks like an illegal pitch to me, based on the following:

OBR 8.01(a) in part "From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

Underline added for emphasis

It's MLB. Nobody cares.

CT1 Fri Apr 08, 2016 09:53am

Pitchers..........SMH

Rich Ives Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 985995)
I'm no MLB Umpire but it looks like an illegal pitch to me, based on the following:

OBR 8.01(a) in part "From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

Underline added for emphasis

OBR: An ILLEGAL PITCH is (1) a pitch delivered to the batter when the
pitcher does not have his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate; (2)
a quick return pitch. An illegal pitch when runners are on base is a balk.

Rich Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 985995)
I'm no MLB Umpire but it looks like an illegal pitch to me, based on the following:

OBR 8.01(a) in part "From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

Underline added for emphasis

I wouldn't care about this delivery in any level of baseball.

Then again, I don't umpire in a rulebook -- I umpire on an actual field.

Benchcoach Fri Apr 08, 2016 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 986033)
OBR: An ILLEGAL PITCH is (1) a pitch delivered to the batter when the
pitcher does not have his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate; (2)
a quick return pitch. An illegal pitch when runners are on base is a balk.

OBR 8.01 (a)The Windup in part, "He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

OBR 8.01 (d) If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit bat- ter or otherwise.

Part (a) of the rule says can't do it part (d) describes the penalty.
What is your point and why does not the pitch delivery in the video in the original post violate the Rule?

Benchcoach Fri Apr 08, 2016 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 986037)
I wouldn't care about this delivery in any level of baseball.

Then again, I don't umpire in a rulebook -- I umpire on an actual field.

Your post basically says you don't care and you don't read. Too bad you choose to ignore the Rulebook. You might want to learn the rules before you take the field. Ignorance is not something one generally takes pride in. It is insightful that you are unable to explain why the delivery in question would in fact be legal.

Rich Fri Apr 08, 2016 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 986056)
Your post basically says you don't care and you don't read. Too bad you choose to ignore the Rulebook. You might want to learn the rules before you take the field. Ignorance is not something one generally takes pride in. It is insightful that you are unable to explain why the delivery in question would in fact be legal.

My work speaks for itself.

It's not that I can't explain, it's that I couldn't possibly care to. Big difference.

bob jenkins Fri Apr 08, 2016 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 986054)
OBR 8.01 (a)The Windup in part, "He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

OBR 8.01 (d) If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit bat- ter or otherwise.

Part (a) of the rule says can't do it part (d) describes the penalty.
What is your point and why does not the pitch delivery in the video in the original post violate the Rule?

(d) is not referring to (a). In OBR, an Illegal Pitch is one of two things only -- a quick pitch or a pitch while not in contact with the rubber.

And, (a) is routinely ignored in MLB (and MiLB). Both of these would fall into the category of the "234 known errors in OBR".

Benchcoach Fri Apr 08, 2016 04:19pm

An answer! Thank you. As I understand you explanation the pitcher is exploiting a short coming in the rules. Even though the windup definition says he "SHALL NOT", there is no penalty for the infraction. This begs the question.."How many times could he raise and lower his leg before being called for delay?"

Rich Ives Fri Apr 08, 2016 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 986061)
An answer! Thank you. As I understand you explanation the pitcher is exploiting a short coming in the rules. Even though the windup definition says he "SHALL NOT", there is no penalty for the infraction. This begs the question.."How many times could he raise and lower his leg before being called for delay?"

From windup EVERY pitcher picks up his pivot foot and repositions it. Gonna call that one?

Welpe Sat Apr 09, 2016 01:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benchcoach (Post 986056)
Your post basically says you don't care and you don't read. Too bad you choose to ignore the Rulebook. You might want to learn the rules before you take the field. Ignorance is not something one generally takes pride in. It is insightful that you are unable to explain why the delivery in question would in fact be legal.


While the rules are in black and white, they are not supposed to be enforced as such. Many of the rules require interpretation or an understanding of why they are there in the first place. Especially OBR, which is a convoluted mess cobbled together over decades of changes. It's in need of a good rewriting.


It might help to know who you're chastising before embarking on such a crusade.

charliej47 Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:54pm

The first time I saw that and some of the other actions by pitchers during Spring play, I could not understand why it wasn't being called.

I have since learned that this has been discussed and the PROs are going back to the original ruling where "if a patcher is consistent in his movements with runners on base as he is with no one on, then it shall not be considered a balk/illegal patch".

I believe this was first printed in the 1903 or 1913 time frame.

The discussion was that the umpires were becoming too strict and needs to "let the players play".:D


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