Did he Offer? (Bunting)

[GeorgeC]

Friendly discussion with another umpire in our association who has been umpiring for several years about bunting brings me here for advice and chapter and verse please. We umpire in a Pony league in So. Calif. from Mustang (9-10yrs) thru Colt (15-16 yrs). The question is about bunting what constitutes when a batter "offers". The only reference to "offering" that I can find is in 5.03 OBR with no explanation as to what is offering.

My partner says if a child squares to bunt but makes no additional motion to "go after the ball" and the pitch is wild, it's a ball. He feels you have to make some additional motion after squaring or else it is not a strike. I'm on the other side of the table. I believe taking the bat off his shoulder and squaring is the "traditional" method of offering and if he does not retract his bat, it doesn't matter if the pitch is caught by Aunt Millie in row 7, it's a strike.

I was susprised when I could not find any reference to the mechanics of bunting in any of my usual reference sites, accumulated reference materials and nothing beyond 5.03 in the OBR. Would appreciate some feedback here as well as references. We do a lot of training of young umpires in our league and it would help to have someplace authoritative to point to on this rather than just "tradition", thanks.

[bob jenkins]

It's not a bunt unless the batter makes some additional movement (okay -- there's a possibility that the ball is so close to the bat that the batter thinks it will hit the bat, and so doesn't move it, but that's very unlikely).

Look at it like this: Suppose you are right, and just holding the bat out makes it an offer. On another pitch, the batter holds the bat out, but then pulls it back. You'd call this a ball, right? But how can it be -- by your logic the batter already offered by putting the bat out, and you can't "undo" a swing. Since pulling the bat back leads to "no swing", just putting the bat out must also be "no swing"

[Roger Greene]

I know you guys are talking OBR, but the Fed Case book has this to say in Play 7.2.1b. (2000 edition)

"....In bunting, any movement of the bat toward the ball when the ball is over or near the plate area, is a strike. The mere holding of the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to bunt."

Roger Greene,
Member UT

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by GeorgeC
The question is about bunting what constitutes when a batter "offers". The only reference to "offering" that I can find is in 5.03 OBR with no explanation as to what is offering.

My partner says if a child squares to bunt but makes no additional motion to "go after the ball" and the pitch is wild, it's a ball. He feels you have to make some additional motion after squaring or else it is not a strike. I'm on the other side of the table. I believe taking the bat off his shoulder and squaring is the "traditional" method of offering and if he does not retract his bat, it doesn't matter if the pitch is caught by Aunt Millie in row 7, it's a strike.

I was susprised when I could not find any reference to the mechanics of bunting in any of my usual reference sites, accumulated reference materials and nothing beyond 5.03 in the OBR. Would appreciate some feedback here as well as references. We do a lot of training of young umpires in our league and it would help to have someplace authoritative to point to on this rather than just "tradition", thanks.

George,

Your partner is 100% correct. The answer you are seeking lies in a seemingly unlikely place: the definition of A BALL in OBR 2.00. It says inter alia that A BALL is a pitch which is not struck at by the batter. That is why it is a ball if the batter squares to bunt (ie takes a bunt stance) and subsequently does not strike at (read "offer at") the pitch.

In the case you mention, the batter did NOT strike at the pitch simply because he left the bat in the zone. The position of the ball is the most relevant issue here. If the ball passes in proximity to the bat, the umpire might adjudge that the batter actually offered at the pitch (ie attempted to strike the ball), even if the bat remained motionless. Most times, however, the umpire should be looking for some attempt to make contact with the ball, especially when the pitch is not in proximity to the initial position of the bat.

Withdrawing the bat is NOT required in order to prove there was no intent to strike at the pitch, but it is a much safer course for the batter to take. If the bat remains motionless over the plate, however, and the pitch passes by outside the zone and in no proximity to the bat, then we have A BALL by definition. (see also OBR 2.00 Definition of A BUNT)

Cheers,

Warren Willson

[Stan W]

and this point may draw me some heat, but this is why I do not allow "bat Waggling" on bunt attempts...I have long considered this a cheap tactic to draw a ball in youth baseball but had put up with it......until I had a coach who sent a batter up with no intention of swinging, but had him square up and waggle the bat on each and every pitch...now this young man was more concerned with bat waggling than pulling back and a few times he barely missed the ball and once he fouled one off....totally acidentally....confirmed by the coach who said "billy, I told you to pull out earlier"......ended up striking out ....at my next game during the plate meeting I told the coaches of both teams that I would no longer tolerate bat wagging and would call a strike on anyone who did as "offering" at a bunt attempt....coach asked me what if he pulled out early....I contend that I have seen players swing before the ball left the mound area and after the ball was in the catcher's glove...and they were strikes as well.............now this is youth ball 8-10, 11-12 and not older leagues ...has made it easier to determine if he offered.......by not having to sift through 10 bat waggles to determine which one was an offer.........

[Drifter]

Originally posted by Stan W
and this point may draw me some heat, but this is why I do not allow "bat Waggling" on bunt attempts...I have long considered this a cheap tactic to draw a ball in youth baseball but had put up with it

I'm curious as to how you can refuse to allow the bat waggling thing. It chaps me pretty good too, but without any basis in the rule book to prohibit it, my only recourse is to subtly widen the strike zone during the waggle.

That's like prohibiting a kid from banging the hell out of his cleats with a bat when it's perfectly obvious to everyone that the ground is dry as dust. Aggravating as all hell, but not illegal.

Vern

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Drifter

I'm curious as to how you can refuse to allow the bat waggling thing. It chaps me pretty good too, but without any basis in the rule book to prohibit it, my only recourse is to subtly widen the strike zone during the waggle.


Vern [/B]

If it's done at the higher levels, someone ends up with 5.25 oz x 90 mph in the ear. And, this is justifiable -- after all, the batter was trying to distrat the pitcher, and it worked.

We don't allow the retaliation at the lower levels, so we have to police it up front.

I haven't had a problem with a coach once I've explained it, and added that I won't allow it from the other team either.

[Stan W]

Drifter,
As I tried to explain in my original post, I had let this go on until I ran into the situation above. Now Im qualifing this as youth ball 8-12.....the older leagues have their own way of handling someone who does this......it involves Chin music...usually stops it........or they get plunked.....descreetly of course.....I dont allow bat waggling based on my pre-game plate conference with the 2 coaches....I dont quote a rule, just I consider this an offer..... as I said I have seen kids swing before the ball left the mound area and have seen swings after the ball hit the glove..........