Error on 2014 NFHS test

[WestCoaster]

Just finished taking this year's exam. There was a multiple choice question for which the correct answer was not present. The question was:

A's ball first and ten from their own 10. Quarterback drops back into the end zone to pass and is tackled in the end zone by his facemask and fumbles. The ball rolls out of bounds at the 5 yard line. After penalty enforcement give down distance and yard line.

This play is specifically covered in rule 10-4-7, which states that the goal line is the basic spot. Penalize 15 yards from the goal line to the 15, replay first down, so it's first and 5. That is not one of the choices.

I suspect whoever wrote the question was using case play 10.3.1 Situation C as his correct answer. However this case ruling is clearly in error. Rule 10.3 only defines a loose ball play. Had this play happened in the field of play, then it would be a loose ball play penalized from the previous spot. But this is a special case where the loose ball originates from the end zone and is clearly spelled out it rule 10-4-7.

According to 10.3.1 C it should be first and ten from the 25. This would be an incorrect enforcement of the rules.

Comments from the more erudite among us?

[HLin NC]

Not an error. Your ruling applies if there was a safety, touchback, or a change of possession. With no change of possession, it is enforced as loose ball play as indicated.

It is convoluted and even Reddings struggles to explain it.

[Reffing Rev.]

Whether the loose ball originates in the field of play or the end zone has no effect...

Basics of penalty enforcement require us to know where the basic spot is and that requires us to know whether it is a loose ball or running play. The "exceptions" move the basic spot to the goal line when the basic spot would be behind/beyond.

The play in question is a loose ball play (fumble behind the LOS) the basic spot is the previous spot. Had there not been a fumble, then running play, basic spot is end of the run which was in the end zone, therefore the basic spot would be the goal line for fouls against the defense.

[Rich]

As said, not an error. Basic enforcement principle: Loose ball play (run prior to a fumble), basic spot previous spot, foul's on B.

We could argue whether it exposes a poor enforcement principle (end of run on foul where the run ends behind the LOS), but that's a whole 'nother argument. Tackled by the mask in the end zone - basic spot's the goal line, A 1/5 at the A15. Fumbles it? A 1/10 at the A25.

I found this test to be the most straightforward NFHS test I've taken in years.

[WestCoaster]

Here is rule 10-4-7: --- Quote ---The basic spot is the goal line for fouls, which are committed during running plays by the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul when the team in possession is responsible for forcing the ball across its own goal line, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

All conditions in my example play are listed in this rule. A run ending in the end zone followed by a loose ball. Penalty by B while A in possession. A forced the ball into the end zone. How can you say this rule does not apply. This rule was written for exactly this play. This rule says nothing about a change of possession. Yes this is a loose ball play. Rule 10-4-7 says that in this specific set of circumstances the goal line is the basic spot.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

A run ending in the end zone followed by a loose ball.

Which means this is not a running play, it is a loose ball play. A fumble behind the LOS will result in all preceding action being a part of the loose ball play.

Same as if a QB runs behind the LOS and then throws a forward pass, all action before the pass is a part of the same loose ball play.

Let's take a look at Rule 2:

2-33-1

ART. 1 . . . A loose-ball play is action during:

a. A free kick or scrimmage kick other than post-scrimmage kick fouls.

b. A legal forward pass.

c. A backward pass (including the snap), an illegal kick or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change of team possession.

d. The run or runs which precedes such legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, backward pass or fumble.

Since you have a loose ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

Here is rule 10-4-7: --- Quote ---The basic spot is the goal line for fouls, which are committed during running plays by the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul when the team in possession is responsible for forcing the ball across its own goal line, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

All conditions in my example play are listed in this rule. A run ending in the end zone followed by a loose ball. Penalty by B while A in possession. A forced the ball into the end zone. How can you say this rule does not apply. This rule was written for exactly this play. This rule says nothing about a change of possession. Yes this is a loose ball play. Rule 10-4-7 says that in this specific set of circumstances the goal line is the basic spot.

It's not a running play. It's a loose ball play, by definition. QED.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our state is not a full member of the National Federation, which means they do not pay the insurance dues for the officials for the state. Our state produces our own test which is much shorter and multiple choice. It has been that way for probably 5 or 6 years now. Our test is usually much more common sense and asks about how you apply the rules, not just trying to test your rulebook language knowledge or complete understanding for one word in a question.

Peace

Jeff, normally I'm with you, but in this case:

(1) The test was as straight-forward as any I've ever taken. I took 30 minutes and scored 100.

(2) The question in this thread is a GREAT practical application question. It is testing the concept of running play and loose ball play.

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ART. 7 . . . The basic spot is the goal line for fouls, which are committed during running plays by the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul when the team in possession is responsible for forcing the ball across its own goal line, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

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10-4-7 doesn't apply in this play. You can stop reading the second you get to "running play" since it's not a running play.