2013 Ejection Thread

[scarolinablue]

First HS game of the season this past Friday night, first ejection of the season. Had to help a batter to the bench after he mouthed off a second time, after a warning, about a called third strike:

Me: "Strike three!", accompanied by standard punch out mechanic.
Player (after taking a couple of steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you kidding?!?"
Me: "No, it was strike three. Go back to the bench unless you want to sit the rest of the game."
Player: (after taking a couple more steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you serious?!?"
Me (after using standard ejection mechanic): "Yes, yes I am."

I thought I was more than equitable with the warning. YMMV.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

First HS game of the season this past Friday night, first ejection of the season. Had to help a batter to the bench after he mouthed off a second time, after a warning, about a called third strike:

Me: "Strike three!", accompanied by standard punch out mechanic.
Player (after taking a couple of steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you kidding?!?"
Me: "No, it was strike three. Go back to the bench unless you want to sit the rest of the game."
Player: (after taking a couple more steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you serious?!?"
Me (after using standard ejection mechanic): "Yes, yes I am."

I thought I was more than equitable with the warning. YMMV.

Without taking my mask off my first response would be: "#22, that is enough."

If #22 decided to keep his mouth running without having his brain engaged, and I felt that he needed to spend the rest of the day on the bench, then my next move would be to take my mask off, walk in a non-confrontational manner to #22's HC and inform him that #22 had been ejected for (insert reason here) and that he will need to replace him the next time he comes up to bat or take the field on defense which ever comes first.

MTD, Sr.

[jicecone]

Gentlemen, if you want to eject someone, it is not necessary to engage them in conversation that is barking out orders, which usually escalates the matter and can even be taking as Baiting someone.

Actually the best response here was "No response".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

First HS game of the season this past Friday night, first ejection of the season. Had to help a batter to the bench after he mouthed off a second time, after a warning, about a called third strike:

Me: "Strike three!", accompanied by standard punch out mechanic.
Player (after taking a couple of steps toward dugout, then turning around): "Are you kidding?!?"

Don't answer this question. 95% of the time, the conversation ends here and the batter keeps walking. Should they stop and turn around - fine, deal with it... but imho you gave him too many words anyway.

[dash_riprock]

If you are going to issue a warning, issue a warning using the word "warning" then take the time - as much as you need - to write it down. "That's enough" is not a warning. It is important to leave no doubt in the player/coach's mind that he has been officially (pun intended) warned.

[scarolinablue]

I'm quite comfortable with how I handled the situation. Thanks.

I was really only trying to start a fun thread about ejections, and the fact I had one my first game of the year.. Now I remember that this forum no place for fun, and even though none of you were at my game, several have an opinion on a situation that none observed yet have the "right" answer in handling. A reminder of why this forum is slowly dying as opposed to a few years ago - there is still some good stuff here that can be gleaned though, and that's why I come back from time to time.

I'm sorry, when a mouthy 16-year-old takes the effort to turn around and say, loudly enough for the stands to hear "are you kidding," he will get a response from me, and then for him to basically do it again even after being told, in a non-threatening, politically-correct, with-my-mask-still-on manner to sit down, and then turns around AGAIN and says "are you serious", he's gone. You can ignore it if you want - I'm not. What level of back talk do you accept when the second, third, and fourth players spout off? Where do you draw the line. To quote Barney Fife, "Nip it! Nip it in the bud!"

As I said in the OP, YMMV.

Carry on.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I was really only trying to start a fun thread about ejections, and the fact I had one my first game of the year.

All due respect, SCB, I never even remotely came close to that conclusion from your OP. Like most others here, I thought you wanted our opinion on how you handled the situation.

FWIW, I haven't come close to an ejection in the two games I've umpired so far this year. Both were NCAA softball games, in 36-degree weather with intermittent snow. That's all we've had up here for now; high schools are just starting their scrimmage games.

I can't wait until I leave for my eventual retirement location in Charleston, SC...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I'm quite comfortable with how I handled the situation. Thanks.

That's really too bad. Feel free to never get better. YMMV.

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That's really too bad. Feel free to never get better. YMMV.

I try to get better all the time. My goal this year is to be UIC for the state final - I've worked on a finals crew three of the past four seasons. That's why I occasionally participate and frequently read online forums - there's generally good stuff here when there isn't petty personal sniping going on.

I wasn't looking for advice on this one, but really do appreciate the input. My partner, who is the president of our association, said he'd have done the same thing. The state association upheld the ejection. Some of you will say that doesn't necessarily justify it, but it suits me.

I find it incredible that many of you would give a kid not one, but TWO opportunities to openly question your called third strike. PERHAPS (and that's a stretch) I "baited" him, but I don't think so, given that his comments were loud enough for the stands to hear, but my reply was not. I've not found in FED rules where we are required to warn players, yet I did, albeit subtly and, in your opinion, a "baiting" manner. Since you weren't there, I'll go with my partner's opinion. You didn't hear the tone of voice he used, or the fact he turned around a SECOND time. Maybe he just rubbed me the wrong way, but I don't think so. I really just felt he was a little loud in questioning the call, and the fact he did it a second time crossed my line.

I don't look for ejections. This was my seventh that I recall in 11 years of FED ball. Three for malicious contact, two for fighting, and two for unsportsmanlike conduct toward an official - this was the first directed at me, the other, about three years ago, was directed at my partner containing the words "You" and a four-letter word with a colorful adverb preceding.

Nobody answered this question: "What level of back talk do you accept when the second, third, and fourth players spout off? Where do you draw the line?" I genuinely would be interested to gather opinions here. I figure most of you will say tell the coach to handle it - that's my usual course of events if it's just a comment or two from the bench or a batter.

[dinoian]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

I was really only trying to start a fun thread about ejections, and the fact I had one my first game of the year..

Figure on that note, I'd post about my only two ejections that I gave when umpiring Little League. This was a 10-11 year olds league, and at the time I was doing about 6-8 games a week for the LL which had about 40 teams in it across all divisions, so all the coaches knew me, and at that point I had earned their respect. One of the last regular season games, kid strikes out swinging for the third out of the inning, goes back to the dugout and throws his helmet hard to the ground. Between innings, I go over and warm him somewhat discretely not to throw his equipment and let his coach know about the warning. His next at bat he strikes out again, and throws the bat (not that hard, but still a bit of a helicoptering) towards his third base dugout, and so I eject him. At this point the coach seems relieved but the kid's parent starts berating me for ejecting him saying it's not the kid's fault because he's autistic. I still feel that was a well deserved ejection, since on my field, if you're going to endanger the safety of others, you won't be there long.

Second one was that same year, though not as dangerous (and no grief from parents!) Kid grounds out for the third out in a close game and drops a loud F bomb directed at the situation/himself. I warn him that I won't tolerate that language on the field, he responds with "I don't give a f***", and so I toss him.

I think I'm pretty lucky to have gotten through 5 seasons of LL as a middle schooler/high schooler (had to stop since I went away for college) with only 2 ejections when doing about 50 games a year. I'll be looking to get into Junior High and HS ball sometime in the near future after a 5 year break and only doing intramural slow pitch softball in the meantime. Any tips from the veterans out there on getting back into it/transitioning to a higher level?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by dinoian

Kid grounds out for the third out in a close game and drops a loud F bomb directed at the situation/himself. I warn him...

I don't do Little League, but I can't imagine not immediately dumping a 12 year-old (or younger) for a "loud" F-bomb. I will dump a HS kid for that.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by dinoian

Figure on that note, I'd post about my only two ejections that I gave when umpiring Little League. This was a 10-11 year olds league, and at the time I was doing about 6-8 games a week for the LL which had about 40 teams in it across all divisions, so all the coaches knew me, and at that point I had earned their respect. One of the last regular season games, kid strikes out swinging for the third out of the inning, goes back to the dugout and throws his helmet hard to the ground. Between innings, I go over and warm him somewhat discretely not to throw his equipment and let his coach know about the warning. His next at bat he strikes out again, and throws the bat (not that hard, but still a bit of a helicoptering) towards his third base dugout, and so I eject him. At this point the coach seems relieved but the kid's parent starts berating me for ejecting him saying it's not the kid's fault because he's autistic. I still feel that was a well deserved ejection, since on my field, if you're going to endanger the safety of others, you won't be there long.

Second one was that same year, though not as dangerous (and no grief from parents!) Kid grounds out for the third out in a close game and drops a loud F bomb directed at the situation/himself. I warn him that I won't tolerate that language on the field, he responds with "I don't give a f***", and so I toss him.

I think I'm pretty lucky to have gotten through 5 seasons of LL as a middle schooler/high schooler (had to stop since I went away for college) with only 2 ejections when doing about 50 games a year. I'll be looking to get into Junior High and HS ball sometime in the near future after a 5 year break and only doing intramural slow pitch softball in the meantime. Any tips from the veterans out there on getting back into it/transitioning to a higher level?

Go to a clinic and be seen. Work scrimmages at the level you want to be at.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

If you are going to issue a warning, issue a warning using the word "warning" then take the time - as much as you need - to write it down. "That's enough" is not a warning. It is important to leave no doubt in the player/coach's mind that he has been officially (pun intended) warned.

Without commenting on the other aspects, "that's enough" is absolutely a warning, and I'm pretty sure Jr. will respond accordingly next time he hears the phrase. Then again, I'm coming from the basketball side of things, where "that's enough" works pretty well.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Adam

.. "that's enough" is absolutely a warning...

Agreed. I have on multiple occasions explained an ejection with, "When I said 'Enough!' did you think I didn't mean it?"

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Publius

Agreed. I have on multiple occasions explained an ejection with, "When I said 'Enough!' did you think I didn't mean it?"

If a pitcher throws at a batter's head and you want to warn both benches, do you say "that's enough?"

How about a pitcher who takes 40 seconds to deliver a pitch. Same thing?

When you say 'that's enough' do you record it as a warning?

I can understand using the phrase as a way to tell the coach he's getting to the edge, but I do not consider it an official warning. Neither does my assignor.