T Up a Fan?!?

[offici88]

GV last night with a near first...almost had to whack a fan. I look forward to the fodder and clarifications.

Sit: Held ball, partner whistle, white lets go, girl for green hits the deck, starts crying and holding elbow she landed on. I wait a moment to see if she's getting up, then beckon green coach to floor. Before the coach reaches the girl a guy comes from the stands on his way to the girl--must be a parent (Great!).

Parent has a few choice words for me about the physical play and what I should be calling. I give him (parent now on the floor) the "one more word" ultimatum as it was appropriate.

(A)Is the parent a fan since he came from the stands?
(B)Is he bench personnel since he cam to the court?

If I had whacked the parent, what's the proper way to charge the T?

So glad it didn't come to actually having to whack a fan for stupidity.

[chartrusepengui]

I wouldn't T up a fan - even if it was a parent coming to check on kid. I would make sure coach was on the way to aid player and find game management and have them deal with problem. The person (dad) will have to make a decision whether to aid his child or bi!ch at you. In the former - let the coach and parent help injured player, get replacement on court and move on. In the latter, have game management remove them.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by offici88

GV last night with a near first...almost had to whack a fan.

Impossible.

[Smitty]

When a player is injured, it's best to get far away from the player. Hard to stop a concerned parent from coming to the aid of their child. Let the AD and coach deal with it. Get as far away as you can while keeping an eye on the other players. If the parent is making a scene, find the AD and have them deal with the parent. Nothing good can come of this.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Smitty

When a player is injured, it's best to get far away from the player. Hard to stop a concerned parent from coming to the aid of their child. Let the AD and coach deal with it. Get as far away as you can while keeping an eye on the other players. If the parent is making a scene, find the AD and have them deal with the parent. Nothing good can come of this.

As soon as the parent opens their mouth at me, its bye-bye. They want to come on the floor to assess their child's injury in a CYO/Rec/AAU/summer league game I can understand their concern. As soon as they open their mouth to berate the officials, they are taking advantage of the situation and I will ask GM to remove them. If its an OHSAA sanctioned event, they have no business on the floor until the coach beckons them because its a dire injury. SO its bye-bye automatically. The coach might appreciate it in that situation anyway, as they are probably an intrusive parent.

[Nevadaref]

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.

Now the part with which many here will disagree. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that if the behavior of a spectator at a HS game is poor enough to warrant an ejection, then a team technical foul should also be assessed, and that can be supported per 2-8-1.

I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one, and sometimes at lower level rec games with two-bit game management, it's your only real enforcement mechanism. Now, in a HS game, varsity especially, GM had better remove this parent from the facility. As soon as that fan comes to the floor, if his first move isn't back to the stands (after realizing his mistake), I'm heading to the table to inform them I need to speak with GM NOW.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No one other than bench personnel or the medical trainer is ever allowed to come onto the court during a game. PERIOD.
If random people come out without being granted permission, then they need to be removed from the facility.

Now the part with which many here will disagree. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that if the behavior of a spectator at a HS game is poor enough to warrant an ejection, then a team technical foul should also be assessed, and that can be supported per 2-8-1:Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

I firmly believe that if the team/coach can't control their fans/followers, then they should be penalized.

Is what I have in bold sound about right for the rule in question?

If I remember right, under rule 2-8-1, there's a note that states:
"The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized. When team supporters become unruly or interfere with the orderly progress of the game, the officials shall stop the game until the host management resolves the situation and the game can proceed in an orderly manner. In the absence of
a designated school representative, the home coach shall serve as the host management."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by offici88

GV last night with a near first...almost had to whack a fan. I look forward to the fodder and clarifications.

Sit: Held ball, partner whistle, white lets go, girl for green hits the deck, starts crying and holding elbow she landed on. I wait a moment to see if she's getting up, then beckon green coach to floor. Before the coach reaches the girl a guy comes from the stands on his way to the girl--must be a parent (Great!).

Parent has a few choice words for me about the physical play and what I should be calling. I give him (parent now on the floor) the "one more word" ultimatum as it was appropriate.

(A)Is the parent a fan since he came from the stands?
(B)Is he bench personnel since he cam to the court?

If I had whacked the parent, what's the proper way to charge the T?

So glad it didn't come to actually having to whack a fan for stupidity.

No, it was not appropriate to give the fan an ultimatum. You should never back yourself into such a corner with a coach, player, or fan.

Yes, the parent is a fan, no matter what he does.

No, he is not bench personnel.

To whack the fan would have been stupidity, as it's only going to rein more crap down on top of you.

Once someone is attending the player, back away as far as you need to. It could be an emotional situation, get way from it. Let game management handle the fan.

Handle the situation with some maturity and calm, not with emotion.

[Mrcrash3]

Amen
...and to all a goodnight

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, it was not appropriate to give the fan an ultimatum. You should never back yourself into such a corner with a coach, player, or fan.

Yes, the parent is a fan, no matter what he does.

No, he is not bench personnel.

To whack the fan would have been stupidity, as it's only going to rein more crap down on top of you.

Once someone is attending the player, back away as far as you need to. It could be an emotional situation, get way from it. Let game management handle the fan.

Handle the situation with some maturity and calm, not with emotion.

Common sense prevails.

[TimTaylor]

Our instructions in the event of a player injury are to stop play and beckon the coach/trainer onto the floor, then step away from the situation and let them deal with it. Our time is better spent keeping track of what is going on with the rest of the players while the coach's attention is focused elsewhere. Penalize the team with a T for a concerned parent coming onto the floor? - no way! Distance from the situation can be your friend - if the officials are not in the immediate area, then they can't easily be approached by an upset parent. That alone will give them a chance to think twice before saying or doing something stupid. If they do it anyway, then their actions should be dealt with by game management in the same manner as they would with any other unruly fan.

Dealing with fans in general is the responsibility of game management. While the officials do have the authority under the rules to assess a T for fan behavior, it should be as a last resort. If a fan becomes aggressive or unruly and game management can't or won't control it, maybe, but even then I'd prefer to get law enforcement involved and let them deal with it. Further penalizing a team for the actions of an angry or unruly fan or fans has the potential of throwing gasoline on the flames.