Jump Ball Toss - What would you do?

[rfp]

I'm the referee with the toss to begin an overtime period. Both jumpers go up and miss the ball and it drops between them. Ball hits the floor and is then grabbed by one of the jumpers who passes it quickly forward to begin an offensive drive. My partner is silent. By the time I get the whistle in my mouth the ball is at the foul line, but there is some howling as a result of the no-call.

I quickly decide on not blowing my whistle for a re-jump for a combination of the following reasons: maybe my partner saw a jumper touch the ball which I missed and his no-call was intentional; by the time I was able to whistle, a relatively long time had passed - it would have been a pretty late call; it's my partner's call, so "trust your partner," it's his call to make/miss; I didn't want to show up my partner for his missed call.

What would you have done?

[lukealex]

Originally posted by rfp
Both jumpers go up and miss the ball and it drops between them. Ball hits the floor

Once the ball hits the floor without being touched, that is immediately a rejump.

and is then grabbed by one of the jumpers

Assuming one of the jumpers has already touched the ball in your situtation, "grabbing" the ball is a violation and the ball would be awarded to the other team and I believe the possession arrow would also point opposite the team in violation of the jump ball rule, correct me if I'm wrong.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by lukealex
Assuming one of the jumpers has already touched the ball in your situtation, "grabbing" the ball is a violation and the ball would be awarded to the other team and I believe the possession arrow would also point opposite the team in violation of the jump ball rule, correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider yourself corrected.

Once the ball touches the floor, a non-jumper or the basket backboard, a jumper can possess the ball.

Also, there's no longer "double jeopardy" on jump ball possessions by a jumper. Opponent gets the ball, offending team gets the arrow.

[lukealex]

I looked at the NCAA rules since I don't have my NF rules with me, which read:
Rule 6, Section 4, Art. 5. When the ball touches the playing court without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the official shall toss the ball again.

I was hoping NF and NCAA were the same, but apparently they aren't the same. I'll read it over for myself to get it in my head.

If a jumper grabs the ball before it touches anything other that either jumper, that is a violation.

Also, am I correct in the AP direction or is that two strikes?

[Edited by lukealex on May 20th, 2005 at 09:20 AM]

[rfp]

Mine is not a question on the rules. This is more about dealing with a partner no-call.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by lukealex
I looked at the NCAA rules since I don't have my NF rules with me, which read:
Rule 6, Section 4, Art. 5. When the ball touches the playing court without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the official shall toss the ball again.

I was hoping NF and NCAA were the same, but apparently they aren't the same. I'll read it over for myself to get it in my head.

If a jumper grabs the ball before it touches anything other that either jumper, that is a violation.

You wrote, "Assuming one of the jumpers has already touched the ball in your situtation..." In his "situation", the ball hit the floor and was then grabbed. That is not a violation.

Also, am I correct in the AP direction or is that two strikes?

I addressed this in the earlier reply. The opponent gets the ball and the offending team gets the arrow.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by lukealex
I looked at the NCAA rules since I don't have my NF rules with me, which read:
Rule 6, Section 4, Art. 5. When the ball touches the playing court without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the official shall toss the ball again.

I was hoping NF and NCAA were the same, but apparently they aren't the same. I'll read it over for myself to get it in my head.

If a jumper grabs the ball before it touches anything other that either jumper, that is a violation.

Also, am I correct in the AP direction or is that two strikes?

Go with what BktBallRef said. He's right.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rfp
Mine is not a question on the rules. This is more about dealing with a partner no-call.

It's his responsibility to blow the toss back. I don't know that there's a right or wrong, as far as whether the R should kill it if the U doesn't. I think the way you handled it was fine. If you can get your whistle up quickly, if not, let it go.

[FrankHtown]

At that point, I'd leave it alone. I was U in a two person, watched the toss go up and get tapped, chopped in the clock, and calmly watched a jumper tap the ball, and catch it, pass to a team mate to start the offence. The coach was howling.
At the first dead ball I went over to the coach and calmly explained that once the ball touches the floor, a non-jumper, a basket or a backboard,the jumper can catch it. He pointed out to me, that none of that occurred. I agreed with him and explained that's why I totally blew the call.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Go with what BktBallRef said. He's right.

Always good advice!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

It's his responsibility to blow the toss back. I don't know that there's a right or wrong, as far as whether the R should kill it if the U doesn't. I think the way you handled it was fine. If you can get your whistle up quickly, if not, let it go.

Agreed. Especially in 2-person, this needs to be pre-gamed so the U understands the importance of watching closely. Your responsibilty is to get the jumpers ready, and give an accurate toss. The U's responsibilty is to watch the other players and the toss. So many younger officials just use this time to "ease" into the game, rather than being ready for something like this. Also, did you ever ask your partner if they really did see a tip? It's not showing them up just to ask, say maybe at the next TO. You could just say things looked strange, what did he see? If he did miss it, then say let's get it next time, etc.

[OhioRef1]

In this situation, I think we can agree that it's the outside officials primary responsibility to make that call. However, when you think about doing what's right for the game, it's anybody's call.

Hopefully you can get air in the whistle early enough. The temperature of the game will also dictate how late you might want to go get this one.

[lrpalmer3]

TPope sounds familiar to me. Welcome to "this" board.

[Nevadaref]

I'd have to double check the officials manual, but I thought that the R has the responsibility for the two jumpers. Assuming that is correct, then I believe that the R should be looking up during the toss to see if a jumper taps the ball or not. That way he knows for sure whether to blow his own toss back in this situation.

Since you are literally two feet away from this play, you have the best look and it doesn't have to become a trust your partner situation. You can share the duty of making sure that the toss is administered correctly.

[FrankHtown]

Nevada Ref is correct. The referee has the jumpers. However, when I'm tossing the ball up between two 6'6" centers, I toss and cover up, so I'm not going to be much help.