Ball deflected over the fence

[kblump]

The Fed 2026 casebook (8.5.5 situation E) has a fly ball to F8. In part b the ball deflects off the top of the fence, strikes the fielder’s glove and ricochets over the fence in fair territory. The ruling given says the batter is awarded 2 bases. In c the ball deflects off the glove and over the fence and in d the ball deflects off the top of the fence and goes over the fence. The ruling for c and d is a home run. The ruling for b seems to contradict rule 8.5.6 I don’t understand where in the rules, the double deflection in b results in a 2 bases award

[Tru_in_Blu]

8.5.6 states that a fair batted ball strikes the foul (fair, my edit) pole above the fence level.

At that point, it doesn't matter in which direction it deflects as it is considered a home run. Think of the "Pesky Pole" in right field at Fenway Park.

The batted ball that hits the top of the fence and then a fielder is technically nothing more than a "ground ball". If it deflects off the fence/wall and then directly off the fielder and over the fence, it's a 2 base award.

If it deflects off the fence and lands on the ground and the fielder picks it up and while attempting to throw the ball, loses her grip and the ball goes over the fence, it becomes a dead ball with runners awarded bases from the "time of the throw".

[Cecil4]

"In part b the ball deflects off the top of the fence, strikes the fielder’s glove and ricochets over the fence in fair territory. "

The key to "b" is that it becomes a ground ball when it strikes the fence without going over.

[kblump]

“8.5.6 states that a fair batted ball strikes the foul (fair, my edit) pole above the fence level.”

8.5.6 also says “….or leaves the playing field in fair territory without touching or going through the fence. It shall entitle the batter-runner to a home run”

In situation b, the ball goes over the fence without hitting the ground or going through the fence. That 2nd part of 8.5.6 is what is confusing me.

[Cecil4]

The key to "b" is that it becomes a ground ball when it strikes the fence without going over.

In effect, it did hit the "ground", which is how the fence is ruled.
IOW, no longer in flight.
It is then deflected over the fence by the fielder as a ground ball going out of play.
The "in flight" definition 2-27 also applies.

[kblump]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

The key to "b" is that it becomes a ground ball when it strikes the fence without going over.

In effect, it did hit the "ground", which is how the fence is ruled.
IOW, no longer in flight.
It is then deflected over the fence by the fielder as a ground ball going out of play.
The "in flight" definition 2-27 also applies.

The ball hitting the fence does not equate to the ball hitting the ground. A ball hitting the fence and then going over is a home run. The difference here seems to be the ball hitting the fence, then the glove, then going over. I did look at the “in flight” definition before posting but was not sure if the glove would be considered hitting a player (based on a it is a catch and an out if a ball in flight hits a glove and is then caught by another player). With no mention of equipment in 2-27, the glove is apparently treated differently for this case. That makes no sense to me. So I guess I will have to make the call based on the ruling and just live with disagreeing with that ruling in the case book.

Thanks for the help

[Tru_in_Blu]

The ball hitting the fence does not equate to the ball hitting the ground.

It most certainly does. Since I'm in NH, I'll again refer to Fenway Park.

You've no doubt heard the term "wall ball single". This happens when a ball is hit so hard it bounces off the left field wall and is caught directly off the wall or picked up after it has landed on the ground. The batter has no chance at extra bases, although in a different ballpark, it may have been a HR. This basically becomes a "ground ball" by definition.

A ball in flight that hits the top of the bullpen wall in right field and then into the bullpen is a home run.

If a ball in flight is deflected by a fielder or by his glove or head (thinking Jose Canseco here) is a home run.

If a ball in flight is contacted by detached equipment (e.g. a thrown glove) it is a delayed dead ball. The play is allowed to continue. If in the umpire's judgement the contact prevented the ball from going over the fence, he can award a home run. Otherwise, if the batter does not reach at least 3rd base, the runner would be awarded that base.

[kblump]

We’re getting away from the question. The case book situation (8.5.5 situation EJ has for parts. Case book ruling in (). The ball deflects:
a. off top of fence and land in the outfield (gnd ball)
b. Off top of the fence, then F8’s glove then over the fence in fair territory (gnd rule dbl)
c. F8’s glove then over the fence (hr)
d. the top of the fence then goes over the fence in fair territory (hr)

Clearly the fence is not always the ground. If so, d would be a ground rule double. THAT is what I was referring to.

My confusion is based on the ball can go over the fence after hitting the glove (c) or after hitting the fence (d) and it is a home run. However, if it hits both the glove and the fence and then goes over the fence (b), it is not a home run. That makes no sense to me.

[varefump]

As we know, if a fair, fly ball leaves the field of play (without being touched) over the outfield fence, it is a home run. And as said in other posts, when the ball hits the fence, it's treated as if it hits the ground (i.e. can't be caught off the fence for an out). So, if the play is not a home run, then the ball leaving the field must be ruled a ground rule double. NOTE: Now the term being used is a BOOK RULE double.

[Cecil4]

True, no such thing as a "ground rule double".

The situation that it is incorrectly used for is covered in the BOOK RULES as you said. It is not a "double", it is a two bases award.

[SNIPERBBB]

e. The ball strikes anything or anyone other than a defensive player while it is in flight. In this case the ball is ruled a ground ball.

[Cecil4]

I saw this actually happen in a MLB game, TV of course.
Miaml batter hit deep ball, outfielder leaped (or leapt?) for it, ruled home run at first.
Phila challenged and the video clearly showed the ball hitting the wall above his glove, then down to glove, then back up and over the wall.
Apparently, the baseball rule is the same, 2 base award. Of course, the announcers and even the umpire said "ground rule double".

Just to wrap up, he then scored on a double by the next batter.

[Tru_in_Blu]

The term GROUND RULE DOUBLE actually does appear on page 162 of the 2026 USASB Rules Book.

But the rule referenced therein uses the 2-base award language.

[kblump]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

e. The ball strikes anything or anyone other than a defensive player while it is in flight. In this case the ball is ruled a ground ball.

Except that if the ball hits the fence/wall and then goes over, it is a home run. That is the inconsistency that bothers me. Sometimes the fence is the “ground”, sometimes it is not