NCAA rules clinic

[jmkupka]

Discussed here ad nauseum...

My first year in this NCAA group, no clout to argue with the rules interpreter...

Due to the change in the wording around "Projected Substitution", we are being told, in no uncertain terms, if the coach comes out in the beginning of the 1st inning, and says "in the 5th inning, I want bench sitter Sally to come in to hit in the #3 spot", we are to say, "very good coach" and make a notation on our lineup sheet to remind myself of this change.

or, coach says, "Blue, after 1,2, and 3 bat, and we go back in the field, I substituting 12, 13, and 14 for them on defense", I am supposed to enter the changes and make a note.

I really, really want to work for these guys. But if this occurs on my field, and I don't take the changes (of course I wouldn't take the changes), and the coach protests, because, of course, "substituted players are not required to immediately enter the game", and we get my boss on the phone, he's not gonna back up my call!

What words am I supposed to use to these good people to explain the situation?

[RKBUmp]

I havent seen the wording of the rule, but that is not my understanding of the change at all. It is simply to allow an offensive coach to change multiple batters at one time in that half inning. Used to be the coach had to wait until that position was actually coming to bat to make the change. The coach still cannot say #4 is going to bat for #10 and then #4 will reenter on defense the next inning.

Will have search for the wording of the new rule.

[jmkupka]

2018 and 2019 Major Rules Changes for Softball

Copy in red indicates what has been deleted from the rules

8.5.1.1 Any player may be substituted for at any time when the ball is dead as long as she immediately participates in the game.
8.5.1.3 A coach of the team making the substitution shall immediately notify the plate umpire at the time a substitute enters the game.
A coach may make substitutes by notifying the plate umpire of the forthcoming changes.
Substitutes are not required to enter the game at the time the substitution is reported to the plate umpire. Projected substitutions and re-entries are not allowed.

Rationale: Improves the flow of the game by allowing a coach to make projected substitutions. Substitutes will now be reported to the umpire without being required to immediately participate in the game, e.g., allowing a coach to report more than one change in the batting order at the beginning of the inning or re-entering the DP before her next at bat. Projected re-entries, i.e., re-entries reported while the substitute is participating (running, batting, playing defense), will continue not to be allowed.

[jmkupka]

So, the "Substitutes are not required..." statement is being used to rationalize their inaccurate interpretation that a sub may be made for any player at any time in the future (and has to be accepted by the umpire when stated to him).

[CecilOne]

I appreciate the other sanctions even more.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

if the coach comes out in the beginning of the 1st inning, and says "in the 5th inning, I want bench sitter Sally to come in to hit in the #3 spot", we are to say, "very good coach" and make a notation on our lineup sheet to remind myself of this change.

or, coach says, "Blue, after 1,2, and 3 bat, and we go back in the field, I substituting 12, 13, and 14 for them on defense", I am supposed to enter the changes and make a note.

And if they forget, does that make the starter an unreported re-entry?

[teebob21]

While we can all understand the intent/spirit of this rule change, it would have been a lot more clear (on paper) if they had not removed 8.5.1.3.

Substitutes can (and should, at any level, IMO) be able to be made at any time...but they are immediate whether on offense or defense. Just because the offensive team does not all participate at the same time is no reason to limit lineup changes. Want to sub for batter #5 in the top of the 1st? OK, but now that player is in, whether she bats or not in that inning.

Here's my "Larry the Cable Guy" interpretation: "Them subs is in the game as soon as Coach tells ya they are. Till then, they ain't in the game. And, ya cain't put players in the game for 'gonnabe's'...they either is or they ain't in the game."

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

"in the 5th inning, I want bench sitter Sally to come in to hit in the #3 spot"[/B][/I].

(snip)

or, coach says, "Blue, after 1,2, and 3 bat, and we go back in the field, I substituting 12, 13, and 14 for them on defense"

(snip)

What words am I supposed to use to these good people to explain the situation?

"Coach, that's a projected substitution and I can't record it. Let me know when those players enter the batting lineup. I can take them at that time."

Those are the words I'd use. They don't properly reflect the rule, and that's because I'd be talking to a coach, so using actual rule-language is....shall we say "tough" to use at all times. If questioned, I could quote chapter and verse, but that's usually not necessary on First Contact with a coach. Sometimes we have to paraphrase (to start with).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Rationale: Improves the flow of the game by allowing a coach to make projected substitutions. Substitutes will now be reported to the umpire without being required to immediately participate in the game, e.g., allowing a coach to report more than one change in the batting order at the beginning of the inning or re-entering the DP before her next at bat. Projected re-entries, i.e., re-entries reported while the substitute is participating (running, batting, playing defense), will continue not to be allowed.

I know you all think I'm a little soft on my opinions about rule changes, but this one is a load of shit. It improves absolutely nothing. If anything, it may add confusion to the game. IMO, it is a weak change with no consideration given to order of the game, rules and those tasked to officiate it.

I would love to know what influenced such a change.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would love to know what influenced such a change.

Coach reports Flex batting for DP (who is only playing offense). At the end of the half-inning, the coach wants to reenter the DP. That was a projected substitution under the old rule. (Still is in the sense that it may be several innings before the DP's spot comes to bat again.) The coach was to be told to reenter the DP when the DP was due to bat. Coaches being coaches, they would forget and potentially be hit with an unreported substitute violation.

That and if substitutes on offense are taken one at a time, it slows the game down.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I know you all think I'm a little soft on my opinions about rule changes, but this one is a load of shit. It improves absolutely nothing. If anything, it may add confusion to the game. IMO, it is a weak change with no consideration given to order of the game, rules and those tasked to officiate it.

I would love to know what influenced such a change.

Mike, even having met you for a whopping 5 minutes in person, I love your unfiltered opinions, and this is a good one (opinion). This "weak change" fixes the old rule of no "projected subs" where a 'projected' sub is immediate. As I understand it, subs are "effective" as soon as reported. No sooner, no later. As far as I am concerned, this is a positive rule change.

I reserve the right to edit this post if I am wrong. :}

[youngump]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Mike, even having met you for a whopping 5 minutes in person, I love your unfiltered opinions, and this is a good one (opinion). This "weak change" fixes the old rule of no "projected subs" where a 'projected' sub is immediate. As I understand it, subs are "effective" as soon as reported. No sooner, no later. As far as I am concerned, this is a positive rule change.

I reserve the right to edit this post if I am wrong. :}

It seems poorly written (as evidenced by the OP) but the rule just brings NCAA in line with every other softball (and baseball) code, no?

[jmkupka]

The people with whom I'm debating are not even concerning themselves with the re-entry yet... just the original substitution, which they think can be made 3,4,5 batting cycles into the future...

Strangely enough, I believe 1 small change (or even an addition) in the rationale explanation would clarify things immensely:

Projected substitutions, i.e., substitutions reported if the player to be substituted for continues to participate after the change is reported (running, batting, playing defense), will continue not to be allowed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Coach reports Flex batting for DP (who is only playing offense). At the end of the half-inning, the coach wants to reenter the DP. That was a projected substitution under the old rule. (Still is in the sense that it may be several innings before the DP's spot comes to bat again.) The coach was to be told to reenter the DP when the DP was due to bat. Coaches being coaches, they would forget and potentially be hit with an unreported substitute violation.

That and if substitutes on offense are taken one at a time, it slows the game down.

I disagree that it would be a projected substitute. I've been dealing with attempted projected substitutes for a quarter of a entry and IMO that is a misinterpretation. While it may not be a smart move by the coach, there is no requirement for a player being entered in the batting order to make an immediate appearance as a batter. Then again, the BS I've seen thrown around NFHS recently, I have often wondered how many actually know what a projected sub is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

It seems poorly written (as evidenced by the OP) but the rule just brings NCAA in line with every other softball (and baseball) code, no?

No. Well, not that way it is coming across.

It isn't hard. For that matter, it has been harder trying to create scenarios that try to redefine a projected sub in order to fix something that wasn't broken