Quote:
Originally posted by BigUmpJohn
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Vietti
ASA POE describes this play almost exactly and says that the runner is awarded home. The reason is the award to the runner is dictated by where they are located at the time of the throw. Hence the award to home. They still need to fulfill their baserunning responsibilites before they are awarded the bases. The only part of the POE I am not sure about is that they also say that the runner is between 1st and 2nd when the ball goes into dead ball territory.
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I didn't have my rule book with me when I originally responded, but now that I have it, it does give the same situation word for word that you originally posted.
You say the reason for awarding the runner home is because the runner last touched second. OK, I guess according to the rule, that's correct. My beef is, and I'm not disagreeing with you Rick, is that the runner didn't LEGALLY have second base. The runner legally held first. After completing their base running responsiblities, why do they still get home?
"Two bases from the last base touched at the time of the throw..." according to rule.
How about a possible rewording of POE 37 to "Two base from the last base LEGALLY touched at the time of the throw..."? This eliminates the need for the exception for POE 37
Objections? Comments? Potential arguments? 
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Actually, the rule says NOTHING about last base legally touched.
ASA 8.5 RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITHOUT LIABILITY TO BE PUT OUT:
G. When the ball is in play and is overthrown (beyond the boundary liens) of is blocked.
EFFECT: All runners will be awarded two bases, and the award will be governed by the positions of the runners when the ball left the fielder's hand. Runners may return to touch a missed base or base left too soon. If two runners are between the same bases, the award is based on the position of the lead runner. Once a base runner advances to and passes the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any missed base or any base left too soon.
There are four exceptions, but none have to do with the subject matter. The "last base touched" phrase is in the POE to make it easier for some to understand. Apparently, in this case, it is causing confusion.
Remember, in ASA, once a runner passes a base, they are considered to have touched that base. Since a base left too soon is an appeal, the umpire cannot award bases and then explain it to the teams that the reason is because s/he knows the runner left too soon.