Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
What does this have to do with the topic we are discussing? Taunting is not always about the words you say, it is often about what you do, like getting in someone's face or your gestures. I have never penalized or would never penalize someone for taunting if all I did was have someone after the fact come to me and say, "Ref, he said something to me." But since that is where you want to go with this, I guess.
I just heard a story the other day from a former coach that some college teams had a fight in the locker room area, do you penalize a fight that you never saw in any way? I would hope not considering you have no idea who threw a punch or who said anything in the actions of such an event? Maybe you would, I do not know.
Again, if you know something happen you can do what you want. But as I said, I make it very clear before any such action takes place what they are to do and even tell the coaches and players it is a T if they take off their jersey in the game. Almost always we are the ones directing them to change their jersey. I have even been in games where the lights are out before the game for the introductions and we are in relative darkness when this happen so not sure I am watching every movement of players to know what they are doing. But again, if this is your thing, knock yourself out.
Peace
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Regarding the issue of verbal taunting, I was thinking about a situation in which an individual says something with his back to you and you can't see his face to say you "saw" him say anything. For example on a breakaway the defender hustles back and blocks the layup attempt. He then follows it with a "don't bring that sh*& in here MF" but was facing away from you when he said it...can you punish that without seeing his lips move to verify it was him? I would, but because I'm confident of which player said it. The context makes sense. Different situation but same language used with two players of the opposing team standing next to each and this is said jokingly, however you can't see which one of them said it...do you penalize that? I don't because I don't have enough information to know who said what, but I do step in and give both players a heads up that they need to watch the language.
Coming back to the jersey issue, I agree with you on preventative officiating. I'm not, however, going to pass on the T just because I can't directly see the jersey removed because a team constructs a temporary dressing room in the form a huddle or by holding up towels after I've told the coach the player needs leave the visual confines of the playing area as removing the uniform on the bench area will result in a technical foul.
I'm not making a judgement or telling people what to look for or how to deal with this or any other issue. My point was simply that you can penalize things you don't directly see. There is also value in Dad's point of being careful about penalizing things you don't see, but the reality is that we have 4 other senses and the power of reasoning that should guide us.
PS: Dad, you may be correct that a person can remove one jersey after putting another on, but the infraction resulting in a technical foul is "removing the jersey", not for being without a jersey at all. As the word "the" is used in the rule and is a definite article, we have to determine which jersey the rule is considering. The most logical answer is that it refers to the jersey the player is wearing to start the game, and therefore removing that jersey regardless of how many other uniform articles are in place is an infraction. The intent of the rule was to have team members change in the dressing/locker room, which was addressed by the AR published when this became a rule but is not currently included in the current ARs. If I don't see a player leave the court and I don't see him wearing the jersey he had on before going into a team huddle, the conclusion I'm going to make is that he took it off.