[walkerbard]

Wow....can't believe I haven't visited here since 2002...Anyway, here's my question. On a sports forum, someone posted a clip of a pitch Reds' pitcher Johnny Cueto threw the other night. It was a Luis Tiant-esque wind up, turn towards second with an ever so slight pause, a shoulder wiggle and then finishing up the delivery throwing a big, slow curve. The batter kind of just gave up and put his bat on his shoulder during the pause part of the delivery and watched as the pitch was called a strike. This started a debate on whether it was or wasn't a "balk". I contended that you can ONLY have a "balk" called if runners were on base, to begin with. That set off a search of the MLB rule book to determine if a "balk" can be called with no one on base. The wording in the rule book is kind of contradictory. In one place, it states that a "balk" committed with no one on base is a ball and in another place it states (insert balk example) is a balk with men on base, and a "ball", if not. So, my question is, if a pitcher commits an illegal pitch/action (like a quick pitch or going to his mouth on the rubber) that results in a ball being awarded (would have been a balk if someone was on base) to the batter, is it still CALLED/CONSIDERED a balk (i.e. would an umpire say, "That's a balk...ball 1")?Thanks.