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Old Wed Jul 23, 2003, 04:09pm
Warren Willson Warren Willson is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry
Warren:
Why invoke 9.01(c) when other rules are readily available?

All of the scenario is covered by book rule; therefore 9.01(c) would NOT apply.

If cool heads prevail; you can't call R3 out after he's passed home unless there's an appeal. The coach taking him from the dugout to home is not the same as a coach assisting a player to advance. The defense needs to take an active part in making that out.

As for R2 . . . unless an umpire has killed the play; he can run as far and as long as he pleases. Again; the defense needs to take an active part.

You could have an infraction for players coming onto the field, but that's "after the fact". Score the run unless some appeal cancels it.

Jerry

P.S. Third World situations mandate Third World solutions. This situation is neither. Think it through and rule accordingly.
Jerry, you have obviously misread the original post. I also think that you need to consider the spirit and intent of the rules as well as their literal wording. Restricting your interpretation to either one in isolation is a prescription for error.

The spirit and intent of 7.09(i) is to prevent coaches from assisting runners to advance OR return to a base. It was just an oversight that the rule didn't specifically mention home base as it does 1st and 3rd base. I guess no-one envisaged either base coach running to 2nd base or home plate to assist a runner in advancing or returning to touch the base. (BTW the original scenario did NOT have the coach "taking the runner from the dugout")

I used 9.01(c) as justification for including home plate under coach's assistance in this case because the rules clearly don't cover that. Your insistance that only an appeal will suffice, once the runner has passed home plate, is incorrect in the circumstances. The runner has not yet left the plate area, and so may only be tagged out IF the catcher can gather the ball before the coach assists him to return to touch the plate. Check 7.08(k)Comment for clarification that access to an appeal is not yet available within the spirit and intent of 7.10(d), even though the base has clearly been "missed" by current interpretation.

The original scenario had the dugout emptying onto the area around home plate BEFORE R2 came home. That clearly brings 7.09(e) into play for that runner.

Jerry, I strongly suggest that you should "read it through" BEFORE telling me to "think it through". The actual sequence of events from the original scenario was:
  1. R3 comes home but fails to touch the plate in passing

  2. The dugout empties and players congregate around home plate preventing the catcher from finding the ball

  3. The 3rd base coach comes down to home plate and assists R3 to touch the base

  4. R2 arrives within 3 feet of home plate and U1 says he didn't touch home - PU says she didn't see it either way.

  5. In the meantime, BR has acquired 2nd base.
Now that may well have been a "Third World situation" but I strongly resent your unkind suggestion that my logical, rule-based solution was also "Third World". Please leave the baggage behind, Jerry.

Have a nice day

[Edited by Warren Willson on Jul 23rd, 2003 at 04:18 PM]
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