Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I believe that a check swing can be appealed up until the next pitch. Now, I'm not saying that the SMART thing for my partner to do would be to uphold that appeal, but that would be a discussion on another thread.
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Not hard at all. It makes great sense to me to apply that limit. Unfortunately it's not in the rules. Also unfortunately it modifies your previous statement that you would NEVER refuse to ask on appeal because it's black letter law. Now we know you WOULD refuse to ask on appeal,
if the appeal came after the next pitch, even though that's against your black & white rule. I agree with that, so why wouldn't you agree with my contentions that you shouldn't ask if the appeal is delayed, say, until the catcher retrieved the ball from the backstop on a passed ball? Allowing THAT appeal clearly gives the defense an advantage not intended by the rules!
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
The rules are a guideline. You trotting out 9-oh-whatever to justify the plate umpire having the decision on balls and strikes is, well, I don't know what it is, but I bet that this was already in the books long before the base umpire was brought into play to help on half-swings when asked. The book is a piece of crap and using it to argue this point while saying other parts should be ignored in other threads is being very selective.
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Actually the rule giving the plate umpire the "option" to seek help from bystanders, if he needed it, first entered the statutes in
1876. As such it
preceded rule 9.04 describing a plate umpire's duties by a significant number of decades. The original rule was modified around
1911 to include the PU's partner as the only party from whom he might be at "liberty" to seek help. Requesting help from the base umpire on appeal was only made "mandatory" with the
1976 Note appended to 9.02 following the 1950's major rule rewrite.
So, for around a
125 YEARS baseball got along quite well without demanding the plate umpire abide by the opinions of the base umpire or anyone else on check swings!
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
By giving the base umpire such power to call a strike when asked by the plate umpire, SOMEBODY determined that the base umpire sometimes has a better view than the plate umpire. Now, why would you think the rulesmakers REQUIRE the plate umpire to check? I think it is because some umpires would refuse to check and because SOMEBODY feels the base umpire has the superior view. The plate umpire is TOO CLOSE.
Rich
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In the 70's they used to judge a check swing by whether or not the bat broke the plane at the front of plate. If you want to go back and live in the 70's then your BU in A certainly DOES have the
best view on that, even with a lefty! BUT we don't use that criterion in isolation any more, and for good reason. Check the much later interpretation from NAPBL/PBUC 1.12 to see that I'm right about that.
The
plate umpire is the ONLY official who can unequivocally judge ALL the material facts applicable to the new criterion - did the batter offer "
at the pitch". Your BU in A can't even SEE the pitch in its all-important travel over the plate with a left-handed batter. Heck, he's hard pressed to see the pitch AT ALL, because he's side on to it instead of staring straight down the path of its travel! Now tell me again how you believe that only the BU is in the best position to judge the check swing. Heck, Rich, I've seen BU's answer with "
Yes he did swing" on an appeal of a half swing where the barrel of the bat broke the plane of the plate but was never more than 6" off the batter's shoulder! Surely you can't call THAT offering "
at the pitch".
The base umpire is TOO FAR away, and he's got a LOUSY ANGLE to call the offer "
at the pitch"!
Cheers
[Edited by Warren Willson on Jul 17th, 2003 at 09:15 AM]