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Carl, your last post was excellent and very persuasive in explaining your point of view. You might even be winning me over. To your last post I would ask the following:
1) Does not Fed Casebook 6.2.4d "acknowledge" fact that a feint may be accomplished with ONLY the movement of the shoulder? Please let's not read into it what other body parts you feel must move as result of shoulder. This is legit question.
2) If, indeed, a "faked throw" is required, are we now to balk F1 when he goes to 2nd and does not "fake a throw". Note that does not include arm motion associated with his turn to the base. And I HAVE seen F1's turn to 2nd legally without any obvious arm motion and without faking a throw. I am certain I am not alone in this category.
3) Does not the legal "step" to 3rd constitute part of the throwing motion? After all, F1 in taking such a step, COMMITS himself to the obligations imposed upon him at that base which is either to throw, or not to throw. This is no different than his COMMITMENT he has imposed upon himself when he steps to home with his pitch. I argue, is not his step part of his pitch? It certainly is defined as such from the windup although not necessarily from the stretch. Bottom line, the step, wherever it legally goes, CAN be the START of either the pitch or the throw, cannot it not? Certainly a step is not physically needed to make arm motion and throw (a ball can be thrown without stepping), but when the legal step occurs, is it not the start of action.
I think what we have here is perhaps trying to read deeper into the intent of Fed rule 6.2.4b which I see as being to require F1 to step where he intends to throw or feint (be it a pickoff or a pitch). This let's the offense know the intent of F1 and, by rule, commits him to where he stepped.
Points to consider: Other rule publications do not require a fake throw. A fake throw is not required (or at least enforced) under any set of rules when going to 2nd base. The fed acknowledges a feint can be made only with a shoulder (therefore a feint can be short of arm movement, merely a bluff, such as legally stepping to the base with the step being the start of his normal throwing motion).
These all support my belief, right or wrong, that arm movement (a fake throw or start of a fake throw) would not be required.
I think you are addressing an issue NOT SPECIFICALLY addressed in detail by the Fed and trying to sell your OPINION as fact. You are entitled to your opinion, as are others to theirs. But until the Fed specifically addresses it themselves or until you can provide a more persuasive reason, I choose to use my opinion as I feel it to be more consistent with other rules and more consistent to application of Fed rules at other bases. That seems far more LOGICAL to me. Do you see ANY MERIT in the arguments against your viewpoint? Better yet, do you perceive your viewpoint as opinion or fact? If fact, have you any further evidence beyond that already stated: have you contacted Fed interpreters? I know your connections and WILL accept your word on such issues. That's good enough for me. Carl, I may question your interpretations, but I won't question your word.
WHY do you feel the Fed would want the interpretation different from the other published rules? Certainly not safety. Perhaps fairness, but if that were case, if that was INTENDED, would they not address it specifically?
Please notice I have not stooped to degratory inuendos as IT WAS NOTICED that YOU DID NOT in your last post. All us hold much more respect FOR YOU and your obvious knowledge when you don't lower yourself to that level. Please take that as a compliment. It IS good to have legitimate discussions where each others thoughts on how the rules and interpreting the rules and publications can be considered. Despite the fact that you referred to me and specifically titled me a "rat" on a different board (for which, by the way, I failed to see an apology) I still hold you in high respect and hope to prove to you that I am here to talk baseball and related concerns, whether you agree or not.
[Edited by Bfair on Dec 28th, 2000 at 09:58 AM]
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