Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
No, my citations were correct and exactly what I meant. I specifically referred to the rules PRIOR to the LBR. Both specifically state the runner is out in the respective game if they lose "contact". Don't need the LBR for that call, you introduced that.
My comments speak for themselves, don't see any reason to just repeat them.
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Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying.
8-7-S says that the runner is out:
When the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which the
runner is entitled until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.
And 8-7-R says that the runner is out:
When the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which
they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted, touches the ground, or reaches home plate.
I've always read both of those rules as applying during the pitch. There's nothing in 8-7-S about when the rule comes into effect. (Or for that matter in 8-7-R). 87R would be in effect from the time the ball goes back into play after time is called after the play. 87S could be put into play at a similar time (once one umpire starts heading back to position?) But that seems like a strange timing thing given that it's not in the rules.
Wild pitch, runners at the corners, pitcher comes home and makes a close play. In the confusion, the runner from 1st decides to continue on to third. Nobody calls her out for violation 87S.
Worse still, runner on third base with a walk. Runner rounds first base and pitcher fakes to 1st or leaves the circle moving toward first. Runner at third takes a lead off for home while she's faking since the LBR is off. You immediately call her out for violation of 87S
.
87S and 87T2 are not redundant in my reading of them. I don't think we should read rules to be utterly meaningless if we can help it and I think everyone calls the game consistent with the way I read those two rules.
87S means (though it doesn't say the part up to my comma) that once the pitcher gets ready to pitch, the runner must maintain contact with the base.
87T2 means that once the runner stops on a base while the other conditions are met, she may not leave --umpire's judgment of what it means to leave-- the base for any reason.
And if you don't read it that way don't you have this problem: Runner at 2nd with one foot off the base kicks the bag with the base foot to clean her cleats. DC calls time comes out and asks you if you saw her kick the base. Yeah. Did she lose contact with the base. Yeah. Why didn't you call her out? I protest.