Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsetter
Interestingly, a sub request is defined as a player entering the sub zone. If a player approaches the sub zone but does not enter, we do not recognize the sub and do not penalize. So for multiple subs, if a player left the 'stack' before entering the sub zone why would that be an IR....they were requesting nothing. I know we assume multiple subs and I know what the case book says, but wouldn't this be more of a delay than an improper request? In the case of a player entering the sub zone and leaving before we could recognize them would you administer an IR or a delay penalty even though it had no effect on the game?
This was a conversation generator......
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They are a part of the original request by the legal pair. This is why we stress that if teams have multiple substitutions, that the pair we're not dealing with patiently be ready and waiting outside the zone for authorization to enter.
Otherwise, if we've already administered the sub that we whistled, and all of a sudden here comes another sub from the bench after we've already sent in the one they've requested, that's dangerously close to two separate requests. Normally, we'd allow it, tell the coach "Hey, speed it up back there, otherwise I can't guarantee she'll get in." (not verbatim, of course.
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But, since a team is only allowed one regular interruption per dead ball, that's why multiple subs are to be considered one request should they properly be standing and waiting while we're administering the sub pair that initiated the request. So even though they're not the pair that entered the zone, the pair before them that did step in technically "requested" entry for both of them.
A team delay wouldn't be appropriate because that's usually team initiated. They would have to be causing the delay. They (the subs) did what they were supposed to do in the sense of being there ready to go in, standing outside the zone, but unbeknownst to them (they don't know what they're doing half the time) they aren't allowed to enter because of reaching their maximum. So a "wave off" is all that's warranted. Now, if they were to stand there in the zone after you've waved them away looking dumbfounded, then you could sanction with a TD since they are now causing the delay.
In your latter example, you'd do nothing (unless you as the R2 feel it delayed the match, you can request a TD from the R1). If you didn't blow your whistle, there was no delay. It's not an improper request, because you as the referee didn't acknowledge it to determine whether or not it was improper. So, play on.
Here's a great video demonstrating some of the techniques used in FIVB when dealing with substitutions. One in particular, you'll see the coach motion for sub, in which case the R2 gestured that there's no one in the zone. Once the sub headed toward the zone, he waved off, basically telling him "too late". You can't see it in the clip, but the R1 gave them a team delay because it delayed the flow of the match, even though it wasn't technically "requested".
But, the key, which I agree with Felix, is catching it before you acknowledge the request. That saves the hassle (if it's considered one) and they generally appreciate it anyway (the teams). But if you don't catch it, and you whistle their request, it's an IR at the point for the 13th sub.
FIVB Multimedia teaching material for referees - substitution.flv - YouTube