Quote:
Originally posted by Bfair
Warren, please note I referenced never an advantage gained on a FORCE play by missing base. Then I reference possible slight gain potential on a timing play.
Situation says "Runner beats throw to 2nd". Why is anyone wanting to penalize offense for beating throw whether on or off the base. No different than a touched base and then runner came off base. Liability is then on offense with advantage to defense to still be able to retire runner. That still means no advantage to offense. My guess is that if the JUDGMENT of whether runner beat throw is close, it will likely go against offense since he hasn't touched base. Again, no advantage to offense.
Please feel free to cite example of where offense can gain advantage by not touching a base they are FORCED to advance to. Situation described does not qualify as no advantage is gained due to missing base (after runner has beat throw).
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Sorry, Bfair. I was in the act of editing my post when your response came in. It is
because of the Bremigan ruling that the slight advantage flows. Let me try to do it by the numbers:
1. Bremigan for the BUD (now PBUC) says that a FORCE is removed when a runner "reaches" a base to which he is forced, whether he touches it or not.
2. R1, R3, 2 outs. BR grounds to deep F6. R1 clearly beats the ball to 2nd but passes the base without touching it. This removes the force.
3. Having reached 2nd and removed the force, R1 must now be tagged out for the 3rd out. (The Pro interpretation is if the runner clearly beat the ball, you can't call him out on the force and he must be tagged for the out). A Time play.
4. R3 scores and R1 is tagged out in that order.
Clearly,
without the Bremigan ruling R1's tag out at 2nd would STILL be a force out under the rules because R1 didn't touch the base even though he beat the ball. No run would score [OBR 4.09(a)Exception(2)]. However,
with the Bremigan ruling the 3rd out on R1 at 2nd becomes a time play and R3's run scores. No 4th out appeal is possible since the base wasn't "missed", just passed in the attempt at acquisition.
Effectively the Bremigan ruling allows R1 to
convert a "no advantage/no run" Force play into a "slight advantage/run scores" Time play by reaching and passing 2nd without touching the base. THAT miniscule advantage shift is what this whole shemozzle is all about. Go figure. (grin)
Cheers,
Warren Willson
[Edited by Warren Willson on Dec 7th, 2000 at 06:51 AM]