Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Actually I said it was unclear and I was not alone in saying that. Again, if you want to call a flagrant foul, good for you. I honestly do not care or would not object to your judgment.
Peace
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Actually, in post #3 you said "I guess it depends if you consider the ball handler to throw a punch.
But there was some contact before that, so based on the angle I cannot say that was the case with confidence." Sounds like you thought it was clear at that point. So with the same angle you have contact by B24, but can't tell if W24 pushed or punched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
But they obviously did not agree with you right? They obviously did not call a flagrant right? And since it was so clear to you on a tape looking at a strightlined view, they obviously had likely a better angle than you did and came to some conclusion other than what you and a few with the benefit of replay and watching over and over the officials seemed to not have.
Peace
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Which official had a better angle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I will say it this way, you are flat out wrong. You are wrong because if a player was trying to get their arm free and inadvertently hit someone in the face, head or chest is different than throwing a punch out of anger. If it was not the case than the NCAA would not have officials look at the monitor for plays like this in the first place. And unlike the NCAA these guys did not get replay or other angles to help them make the call. And younger officials need to also realize that if they make the wrong ruling in someone's eyes, they might be subjected to not working certain games or be perceived as not having good judgment. We can debate this tape all day like we did the last one on flagrant fouls and even in that one there were opinions all over the place on what was or what was not flagrant. It does matter everything that takes place because it might tell the story as to if this was a punch or just a reaction to being held. I have been around long enough in my local area to hear about an official that overreacted to a situation only to later be taken off games or banned from a conference because they did not use "good judgment." Just because I think what happen first matters to the reaction on some level is not unusual in officiating and why the officials talked in this situation. If it was clear, they would have not needed to talk.
Peace
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My advice to players is if you are trying to get your arm free, you better be pulling your arm towards your own body and not pushing it towards anyone else. Otherwise you're asking for trouble. The whole "get off me" thing has gone over the top and is only causing problems, imho.
I think we all need to be reminded that we all can be videotaped at any time and it can be on the internet. Non-basketball plays need to be caught and dealt with properly and correctly. I think the majority of us take in to consideration on what happened first, in regards to a reaction, as long as the reaction is a basketball play. If the reaction is non-basketball in nature, then I don't care what happened first.
Maybe it wasn't clear to the crew because none of them saw it.
I'm done. Good luck in the state tournament Jeff.