[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Say what? A simultaneous foul isn't and never has been a false double foul afaik. In a false double foul, you penalize in the order that the fouls occur.

Methinks you mis-remembered what happened long ago....

We had a big argument years ago over on McGriffs about this one. At that time, only simultaneous technical fouls were covered in rule 4. Simultaneous personal fouls were covered in rule 6-3-3(g) at that time but didn't have a penalty reference attached. The whole world minus 1 person said that the penalties for a simultaneous personal foul should be the exact same as the one listed for a simultaneous technical foul---> no FT's and go to AP at that time. Before the AP, by rule we had a jump ball for both simultaneous personal and technical fouls with no FT's. That one person...YOU....tried to argue that it should be a false double foul instead and the officials had to decide which foul came first and then penalize them in order. Well, the next year....2002-03... the FED added a coda to 4-19-9 that included false double personal fouls also with both having the same penalty.

Remember now?

From an ancient text....

COMMENTS ON THE 2002-03 RULES REVISIONS:
DEFINITION OF A SIMULTANEOUS PERSONAL FOUL ADDED (4-19-9): The definition of a simultaneous personal foul was added to the existing definition of a simultaneous technical foul. Simultaneous personal fouls were referenced in Rule 6-3-3g and in the NFHS Handbook, but were not defined in rule 4. This addition provided consistency in rule terminology and penalty administration.

Again fwiw, a simultanous foul has never been a false double foul under the rules afaik and I've never heard of a case play that said different.

Not that anyone really cares.....

JR:

There is a Casebook Play from the mid- to late-1970's (the ancient text to which I refer and you even pre-date me on this, ) that states that a SF is a FDF. If either or both fouls resulted in the penalty being the awarding of FT's, the FT's were shot and the ball put back into play via a Jump Ball because the fouls occured at the same time. The only thing that the rule changed from the original Casebook Play was to eliminate the FT's.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I guess I am going to have to climb up into the attic after all, scan the Casebook Play onto my hard drive and then hope that somebody will email me with instructions as to how to attach the scan to the Forum. Email me with said instructions at DeNucciBasketball (at) Hotmail (dot) com.