Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Isn't part of the definition of false double foul that one of the fouls occurs AFTER the other....which can't be simultaneous???
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The Casebook Play I am referencing is from the late 1970's before the NBCofUS&C split into the NFHS Rules Committee and the NCAA Rules Committee.
The original definition of a Double Foul was A1 and B1 committed personal fouls against each other at approximately the sametime. The definition of a False Double Foul (FDF) has not changed in over forty (40) years (which predates the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees) for both NFHS and NCAA (from the 2010-11 NFHS Rules Book R4-S19-A9): "A false double foul is a situation in which there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs
before the clock is started following the first, and such that at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."
What are the attributes of a Double Foul:
1) A1 commits a PF against B1.
2) B1 commits a PF against A1.
3) A1 and B1's PF's occur at the same time.
That is why a DTF is a FDF; the second foul (it doesn't matter which on you chose) occured before the clock started following the first and at least one of the attributes of a DF is absent. The same applies for a Simultaneous Foul (SF). The Casebook Play from the late 1970's had B1 commiting a PF against A1, while A2 was commiting a PF against B2, with both teams in the bonus. Back then the fouls in a FDF were penalized in the order that they occured, BUT since the fouls were simultaneous, the correct way to resume play was with a Jump Ball. The Casebook Play stated that SF's are a FDF and since the definition of FDF has not changed since then SF's are still FDF'S.
The reason that DTF's were added under the DF definition and the penalty for a DTF was made the same as a DPF (no free throws; personally I do not have a problem with no free throws for a DTF because it speeds up the game) was because too many officials didn't remember their definition of DF. They forgot that a DTF is nothing more that a SF and a FDF. And since FDF's are penalized in the order that they occur, the correct way to put the ball back into play was by a Jump Ball (AP now).
The orginal Casebook Play from the late 1970's was discussed quite a bit in a thread on this Forum a couple of years ago and the result was the definition of a SF added to the Rules Book with it having the same penalty as DPF and DTF; the key being that no free throws are shot and the ball is put back into play via Point of Interruption (which could be via AP). This really did not change the original Casebook Play with regard to using the AP, except free throws are not longer shot. This was the ruling that I gave during the thread and the addition of the SF definition to the Rules Book supported my ruling; it is a shame though that the people that are responsible for these rulings at the NFHS and NCAA would take the time to do the research, they would have found the Casebook Play that I referenced and would have only tweaked the original Casebook Play to eliminate the free throws.
All I ask is that you do not ask me to climb up into the attic until this summer when it is warmer.
I had just finished my paper work from my courier run last night when I decided to check the Forum and I am going to bed now, because as NevadaRef would say, I need my beauty sleep,
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MTD, Sr.