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Originally Posted by just another ref
A pass is a pass when it touches another player. You have lost me here.
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According to your logic, anything that does not meet the definition of the action is an illegal something. I say that simply doesn't work, and I used the dribble/pass analogy to point that out. Anything that doesn't meet the definition of "anything" isn't an "illegal anything"; it's just not that "anything."
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According to 9-5, the only violation is to start another dribble after the dribble ends. Yet, what we are discussing,
(touching the ball a second time before it touches the floor) is not one of the things that ends a dribble.
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I think you miss my point. Your contention that anything that meets a definition is legal is disputed via 9-5, which defines an illegal action.
But I agree, there are a number of rules that could use a little work.
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
4-15-2: ... If the ball had hit the floor, then all of the points in 4-15-1 would have been met, and therefore it would be a dribble.
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There we go. That was my point. If it didn't hit the floor (or more correctly, there was no push or throw toward it), it wasn't a dribble. (Notice you didn't mark "(check)" in 4-15-1 after "to the floor.") And if it's not a dribble, it can't be an illegal dribble. That's probably why it got changed to a "travel."
As for Case 4.15.4C, the opponent's backboard and officials count as the floor, hence counting as a dribble. It makes sense, really. To some, we're as valuable as a floorboard.