Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) And you're treating 4-24-8 as if it doesn't exist. And 4-24-8 specifically refers to excessive and illegal elbow swinging, which is what we're discussing. Not all elbow swinging is excessive and illegal. If it was, any pivot with your arms out in a normal position would also be illegal. Do you really think that's the case?
2) There is nowayinhell you can call a PC foul or a violation on any offensive player with the ball while that player is making a LEGAL pivot. There is nothing written anywhere in the rules that will allow you to do so. To call either, you must have an illegal act of some kind to occur. And an legal pivot is NOt an illegal act. To say otherwise is simply ridiculous imo.
We're never going to agree. May I suggest that you take this to your local or state rules interpreter and ask them if an offensive player with the ball can ever be called for a PC foul or a violation while making a legal pivot.
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I have to disagree with you on this. There are several rules at play.
The elbow swing does not have to be excessive,
If the elbow extends outside the vertical plane the responsibility for contact belongs to the offense. If the defender is inside the offensive space the it is a defensive foul.
There are plenty of pivots that are wide- There are plenty of pivots that extend into other players
Rarely is there going to be contact with an elbow in my game and not have a foul. This can never be incidental, It has to be called.