Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
If one player is inbounds and one is OOB, rule 4-4-4 by itself would not tell us whether the ball is to be considered inbounds or out-of-bounds. There is just as much merit for both.
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Not really. First, just look at the other rules (all of the rules need to be taken with respect to one another and especially the case book). 7-1-2a clearly states that the ball is OOB when it touches "a player who is out of bounds."
Now, let's consider a ball rolling from the center of the court to the OOB line. In a perfect world, the ball would only contact the court at one point. However, as the ball rolls, its shape is distorted, and you will have a time where part of the ball is in contact with the floor on the inbounds side of the line and part is in contact with the out of bounds side of the line. Do you blow your whistle and call an OOB violation? I sure hope so.
So, if the ball is touching a player standing OOB, that ball has OOB status - it doesn't matter that someone is touching it inbounds!
The casebook is key here. There are several situations/topics which are covered only in the casebook - "lag time" and end of game delay tactics are only a few. The rules do not exist in a void; we have to go to the casebook for interpretations of the rules, and those interpretations are valid, whether it seems like there is support for them in the rules book or not!
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Mark,
I agree with you on this 100%! I have been making the case all along that 4-4-4 is not helpful for the situation involving the thrower, who is OOB holding the ball, and a teammate, who is inbounds, but touches the ball. Others have quoted 4-4-4 in their arguments. What you quoted from me above was part of my counter argument.
You may have misunderstood what you quoted from me a bit. Please notice that I wrote "rule 4-4-4
by itself." We are saying the same thing.
I will clarify that what I meant was that if one only considers 4-4-4 when trying to make a ruling on this play, then one cannot tell what location the ball has since it is touching one player who is inbounds and one who is OOB. If only 4-4-4 is applied, then there is "just as much merit" for arguing that the ball is inbounds or out-of-bounds. To that you sadly responded "Not really."
In no way am I saying that the rules are unclear on this. I believe they tell us that this ball is clearly OOB. I am only saying that 4-4-4 simply was not written to cover simulateanous touching, and therefore, cannot by itself provide a clear answer here.
So to summarize, I agree with you completely and am trying to convince others who are participating in this thread that, as you say, looking other rules and cases, tells us that
Quote:
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Originally posted by Mark Dexter if the ball is touching a player standing OOB, that ball has OOB status - it doesn't matter that someone is touching it inbounds!.
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Thank you for making my point so very clearly.
[Edited by Nevadaref on Jan 13th, 2003 at 12:36 AM]