[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But, 3.2.2C (b) clearly states that someone who has already played, but not in the game at the time of discovery, is not penalized.

Yes, it is a brand new ruling first published last season. I believe that whoever authored it failed to appreciate the difference between "penalized if discovered while being violated" and "penalized when discovered." The text of the penalty section for this specific rule states the latter. This is because the on-court officials aren't looking at the scorebook during the game and have to depend upon being informed of the mistake by the scorer. Therefore, the rule is written such that a team doesn't escape penalty simply because the scorer fails to duly inform the officials, who have otherwise done everything properly.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And, it is consistent with 3.2.2B (a) in that those team members are not penalized if they never enter the game.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. This team member did enter the game and did participate. This person had a material impact upon the game, unlike those mentioned in part (a) who never stepped onto the court during playing action. Attempting to treat both of them the same is totally inconsistent.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So it appears the NFHS is consistent with saying the penalty is enforced on players, not team members, while you are advocating inconsistency by penalizing a team member in one instance, while not penalizing them in another, where the only difference is participation before discovery.

I'm not advocating anything. The NFHS made a decision several years ago to not penalize a team for a bookkeeping error if the listed, or not-listed, individual does not participate in the contest. The NFHS could have legitimately elected to do just the opposite and penalize the roster infraction no matter what, but I believe that out of a sense of fairness they decided that if those individuals don't participate then there isn't a need to penalize. Unfortunately, that principle wasn't carried over to this new ruling in part (b) by the current rules committee. I think that the committee which met in 2009 screwed up and published a poor ruling which allows a team to have member participate and perhaps substantially impact the game, but then not pay any price for it if the detection happens to come at a time when the individual is not in the game. That doesn't equate with the concept of basic fairness.
The aspect of participation is what is salient and should be the determining principle in deciding whether a penalty is necessary or not.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Isn't there already precedence [sic] in the rules for allowing an illegal sub to become a legal player, and not penalized, if we don't discover it in time? Does it matter if they've already been in the game before or not?

Such an error in the substitution procedure would be committed by the officiating crew, not the table personnel. Due to the primary nature of this mistake, as opposed to the secondary nature of a bookkeeping mistake, it seems that the committee believes that a different time frame for detection and penalization is appropriate. Hence, the rules specify that illegal substitutions must be detected prior to the ball becoming live in order to be penalized.
The situation to which you should be making your analogy is a team member with an illegal uniform participating and then departing prior to detection. The ruling for that USED TO BE that it was too late to penalize that player, but a few years ago the NFHS committee changed their position on this and now states that the head coach gets penalized for allowing this no matter when it is discovered. It seems to me that would be a more appropriate precedent in the rules.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

There is no mention anywhere about a book having to be changed because stats aren't accurate. As far as the issue of keeping accurate stats for records or eligibility purposes, don't all those stats go towards a player's name, not number? What if that player wears 53 at the beginning of the season, loses weight, and wears 25 for the second half? Do they have different stats for each number they wear? What if the player rips their jersey and has to wear a different number in the 2nd quarter? I think you get my point - stats have no bearing on the number in the book because the stats go with the player's name.

Are you serious? You don't think that the record of the game should be accurate? I suggest a reading of 2-11 for you. That rule clearly states that the scorer shall record these things and, yes, it is understood that this record-keeping should be accurate.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Whether or not I agree with how the rule's written is not important. For the record, I would agree it makes sense to penalize a rules infraction when we discover it. There is a little bit of feeling that someone has "gotten away with something" if we don't get to penalize them on the "technicality" of us not catching it at the moment they're in the game.

I absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But we don't get that choice, we only get to follow the rules. And, for someone who is a stickler on enforcing the rules as written, it seems a little inconsistent that you would advocate a penalty solely on your disagreement with the rule.

I'm not disagreeing with the RULE, which is clearly published in the RULES BOOK. I'm disagreeing with the very recent play ruling in the CASE BOOK. It is my opinion that the author erred in writing it. What does one do as an official when the text of the rule doesn't jive with the play ruling? Does one follow the actual text of the rule or should one go with the newly published interpretation? That's the problem.