Quote:
|
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown Surely I'm not alone here in being confused and seeing the contradiction in our rules. The only ones that seem confident are Nevada and BBref... and yet they are opposed... I think.
|
Yes, we are. Tony/BktBallRef maintains that since the note after 9-2-11 says an opponent may legally touch or grasp the ball that a teammate cannot. I say that since there is nothing, including this note, that says a teammate may not touch or grasp the ball while the thrower is holding it, it is legal to do so. We are both basing our opinions on the rules and have reached opposite conclusions.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Rule (9-2-11 Note) specifically states B1 may touch the ball without violating the throw-in provisions when A1 holds the ball across the plane - no Technical foul.
No rule says that A2 cannot touch the ball when A1 holds it across the plane. However casebook play 7.6.3B item (c) says it is a violation if the ball is handed to A2. It doesn't say touching is the violation but handing off to A2 is a violation.
|
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
There is no rule disallowing a handoff
|
Not true. Even I say that 9-2-2 covers this, since a hand-off and a pass are not the same thing. The thrower has failed to pass the ball. Therefore, it is a violation according to this rule.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
In this case, the touch by B1 does not end the throw-in and does not create an OOB against A1.
|
Yes, and I say the same must be true when A2 touches the ball. Since the ball was never passed, the throw-in never ended, and the ball never became inbounds.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Despite the exception given above, I'm tending to lean towards the answer "If there is no rule disallowing the action, the action is acceptable." Perhaps we could infer that it is not allowed per 9-2-11 Note but I feel like that note is only saying that if A1 is dumb enough to hold the ball through the plane, B1 can touch it, hit it, grab it, steal it etc. without receiving a technical foul. I do not feel the Note says A2 cannot touch the ball in the same situation.
|
This means you argee with me. Tony is going to have to admit that someone else out there agrees with me!
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
How do we decide? Is there a bigger dog/entity that can assist us? Could NCAA rules help us understand this situation? As much fun as it has been seeing postings of opposite interpretations and attempts to justify those interps, I would like to see a definite answer... no offense to either BBRef or NRef.
|
The whole point is to put yourself in the seat of a Supreme Court Justice and read the rules and make the interpretation yourself, rather than wait around for someone else to tell you what their opinion is. That is what Tony/BktBallRef and I have tried to do. There is no fun the other way.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
As an aside, we have also discussed the act of passing and seem to have decided that a handoff does not constitute a pass.
|
That's right. Even Tony/BktBallRef and I agree on this.
Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
We have said that bouncing the ball off the wall behind the passer so it enters the court violates 9-2-2. No one has said that throwing the ball straight up and catching it, or dribbling it violates 9-2-2... I guess because it is not entering the court? Someone please clarify this also.
I has been a very engaging discussion!
|
The clarification is that 9-2-2 is a restriction on how the ball is PASSED, nothing else. Neither tossing the ball up in the air and catching it or dribbling the ball constitute passing. Therefore, 9-2-2 has nothing to do with these actions and neither of them is a violation of this provision of the throw-in rule.
However, bouncing the ball off the wall
in an attempt to make it rebound onto the court is considered a pass and since the ball did not go directly into the court, this is a violation. Yet I would not consider it a violation for a thrower to bounce the ball off the wall behind him to himself or to touch the ball to the wall while he is holding it, since I don't believe that either of these is a pass. More precisely, if Team A scores and B1 who is upset for getting burned on the play takes the ball OOB and slams it off the wall and then catches the ball clearly in a display of frustration and not an attempt to make a throw-in pass, then this is not a violation of 9-2-2.
[Edited by Nevadaref on Jan 10th, 2003 at 07:03 AM]