Quote:
Originally posted by DMRefGal
Once you have touched A2 with the ball (or A2 has touched the ball), you have made "contact with the floor inbounds" because "A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual' s location." We already know the handoff is illegal, so, once A2 lets go after the touch, the ball is then back OOB in A1's hands. Right?
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The crux of my argument is that this in not right. I maintain that when two or more players are touching the ball simultaneously 4-4-4 (the rule you quoted above for ball location) is insufficient because it does not tell us which of the two individuals' location should be used for determining the ball's location. If we view the situation from the point of A1, the thrower, A1 is OOB and is touching the ball the entire time so if we applied rule 4-4-4 to him, the ball's location would be OOB. See the problem? Therefore we must dig deeper and we all know that the rules committee made a decision that if any of the players touching a ball at the same time are OOB then the ball is OOB. As I wrote in an earlier post on this thread, during this play I believe that the ball NEVER obtains inbounds status since A1 never let go of it. Thus the ball was OOB the whole time, so there cannot be a violation for OOB.
Quote:
Originally posted by DMRefGal
As long as both of them have their hands on the ball, there is no violation until:
a) A1 lets go of the ball - then you have a violation for the hand-off.
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This I agree with. A1 has violated 9-2-2 since he has failed to PASS the ball inbounds. A pass and a hand off are not the same. This is made crystal clear in the casebook.
Quote:
Originally posted by DMRefGal
b) A2 lets go of the ball - then you have a violation for OOB.
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I maintain that this is a big NOTHING and play should continue.
Quote:
Originally posted by DMRefGal
If A1 and A2 are both holding the ball and do not let go, and neither keeps a pivot foot, would there be a traveling call because the ball is touching an inbounds player and is not OOB until A2 lets go?
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Since A1 never lets go, there has not been a throw-in pass and therefore the throw-in has not ended. Thus we are still conducting a throw-in. Furthermore, since 4-41-6 NOTE ..."Pivot-foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in."
You can't have a traveling violation either.