[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

What is the difference in the two cases above?

JR, To me there is a clear difference between just putting a hand on the ball and holding the ball. My test would be if you removed the other player would the player with only one hand touching the ball be able to hold it in that position. If not, he clearly does not have control.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

It's a jump ball if players from different teams have player possession at the same time,so that neither player can do anything with it.It's just the official's judgement if that tenet applies.

I agree that there is judgment involved in making a held ball call, but I disagree with your standard. You have twice referred to a player not being able to do anything with the ball. I have never heard of this being used as a way to judge a held ball. I only go by the undue roughness standard given in the rules book.
If I were holding the ball with both hands, I don't see how an opponent could possibly make it such that I could not obtain clear control without using undue roughness by only placing one hand against the ball.
I am unconvinced that his hand touching the ball constitutes holding the ball for the purpose of control. Well, maybe if my opponent were Dr. J and he used his enormous hand to wrap almost entirely around the ball....

I just thought of a play that I'd like your and Tony's opinions on. I'll post it in a new thread.

PS Tony, no one is going to agree with your statement that I am making stuff up in that last post. I even went the extra mile to quote a play from the NFHS case book to prove my assertion that joint control is a valid and accepted concept.