Same same
Bob, Rich, and Willie, sounds like you all are making the same argument. As I have learned the Rule-of-Thumb: call the violation when the arms/elbow are moving faster than the torso or hips. Arms and body moving together is okay. Arms/Elbows moving separate from the body (twisting) should likely be a punishable violation.
And as you have all pointed out, violent contact in either case must be punished with a foul.
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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